ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-09-2014, 02:44 AM   #121
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 3,108
If you think big, long and heavy bikes offer as much fun on tight twisty roads as smaller, more maneuverable bikes do, you're just plain wrong. A GSXR1000, well that can still be fun, though a bit overkill, but then again it's not that long, or heavy... a Hayabusa? me, I'd rather take an SV650 for the twisties, just way more fun.
__________________
Countries ridden FIN SWE NOR DK EE LV LT POL SK HU RO BG GR IT AT DE CZ CH SMR LIE NL BE FR AND ES GBR LUX SI HR BIH SRB MK TR IR PAK IND TH KH LA MY ID AUS CR USA ZA LS SWZ MZ NA BW ZM ZW
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 03:29 AM   #122
Wraith Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 1,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
If you think big, long and heavy bikes offer as much fun on tight twisty roads as smaller, more maneuverable bikes do, you're just plain wrong. A GSXR1000, well that can still be fun, though a bit overkill, but then again it's not that long, or heavy... a Hayabusa? me, I'd rather take an SV650 for the twisties, just way more fun.
If you think you could decide what's the most fun for everyone it's you who is just plain wrong.
I have no problem with pushing the big girl a bit more. One gets used to it quite fast.
I'd take the 200hp over the 70hp and the increased comfort over the cutting edge sportiness.
If I happen to only use half of the 200hp for one ride, it's fine. If I happen not to need the comfort for a short 50 miles afternoon ride, that's fine as well.
The other way round it would not be that fine. That's an immediate insight everytime I jump on a small bike for a test ride. There's just something missing.
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 03:47 AM   #123
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 3,108
well, that is your opinion, and I respect it. I do see this whole thing almost completely differently, but nobody is necessarily right or wrong, and everyone can only talk for themselves.
__________________
Countries ridden FIN SWE NOR DK EE LV LT POL SK HU RO BG GR IT AT DE CZ CH SMR LIE NL BE FR AND ES GBR LUX SI HR BIH SRB MK TR IR PAK IND TH KH LA MY ID AUS CR USA ZA LS SWZ MZ NA BW ZM ZW
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 03:48 AM   #124
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 3,108
"I'd take the 200hp over the 70hp and the increased comfort over the cutting edge sportiness
"

SV650 is nowhere near 'cutting edge' sporty.
__________________
Countries ridden FIN SWE NOR DK EE LV LT POL SK HU RO BG GR IT AT DE CZ CH SMR LIE NL BE FR AND ES GBR LUX SI HR BIH SRB MK TR IR PAK IND TH KH LA MY ID AUS CR USA ZA LS SWZ MZ NA BW ZM ZW
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 04:20 AM   #125
Wraith Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 1,009
I was reffering to the difference between the Kilogixxer and the 'Busa.
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 04:44 AM   #126
Pecha72
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Oddometer: 3,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
I was reffering to the difference between the Kilogixxer and the 'Busa.
Which one of them has 70hp?
__________________
Countries ridden FIN SWE NOR DK EE LV LT POL SK HU RO BG GR IT AT DE CZ CH SMR LIE NL BE FR AND ES GBR LUX SI HR BIH SRB MK TR IR PAK IND TH KH LA MY ID AUS CR USA ZA LS SWZ MZ NA BW ZM ZW
Pecha72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 05:18 AM   #127
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Yes. "What's the best bike for xy?" - "It's Valentino!" Dumb to bring in the rider in this equation.



It's the same as having no power and not being able to use it! What's REALLY BORING is being able (and willing) to use more power but not having it!
Most roads here are restricted to 100km/h (62mph), my bike is appropriately geared to redline at 68mph so if I dare it I can use all of her 170 ponies without getting into conflict with the law. That's exciting. Most exciting it is between two 35mph corners (that might be 40mph corners for a sports bike).



OK, here we might have two major differences between small bike riders and big bike riders.
I don't care if there might be posers out there. IF there were posers I wouldn't even recognize them.
Or even more - what the fuck? - step into competition with them! That's truly not my style of riding, I don't have to prove what a cool superior rider I am to anyone.
And I don't want to have three bikes sitting in the garage while I can only ride one - better to have one that's perfect for me.
And I have more fun with worrying about my licence from time to time than worrying about not finding a fun to ride road all of the time.
I'll repeat myself/ THE RIDER IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE EQUATION.

How can you not understand that?

Comparing bikes without knowing what the rider wants is useless.

I have can find plenty of roads to have fun on, however, the perfect bike depends on which roads I will be riding. I have 2 bikes for the street, one for a mix of street and easy dirt, one for more challenging dirt.

Also, where you live will dictate the ideal bike. If I lived out West, I'd want a bigger bike to deal with higher generally higher speeds as well as higher altitudes. If I lived somewhere that had straight and flat roads, maybe I'd get a cruiser.

Ultimately however, it comes down to rider preference. I have owned big and powerful. Smaller and lighter was more fun, AND FASTER, for me.

As for stepping into competition with others, I don't race on the street, but if I come up behind a slower rider I will pass him. Anyone on a 150+HP, expensive sport bike that I can easily pass on a 250cc scooter is most likely a poser. What's the point of spending all that money on a sport bike and then riding slow?
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 05:54 AM   #128
BDMJ
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2014
Oddometer: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
I'll repeat myself/ THE RIDER IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE EQUATION.

How can you not understand that?

Comparing bikes without knowing what the rider wants is useless.

I have can find plenty of roads to have fun on, however, the perfect bike depends on which roads I will be riding. I have 2 bikes for the street, one for a mix of street and easy dirt, one for more challenging dirt.

Also, where you live will dictate the ideal bike. If I lived out West, I'd want a bigger bike to deal with higher generally higher speeds as well as higher altitudes. If I lived somewhere that had straight and flat roads, maybe I'd get a cruiser.

Ultimately however, it comes down to rider preference. I have owned big and powerful. Smaller and lighter was more fun, AND FASTER, for me.

As for stepping into competition with others, I don't race on the street, but if I come up behind a slower rider I will pass him. Anyone on a 150+HP, expensive sport bike that I can easily pass on a 250cc scooter is most likely a poser. What's the point of spending all that money on a sport bike and then riding slow?
Exactly. For many there is much more satisfaction in riding a bike to its limits. With a smaller bike, those limits are far more approachable on the street and on the track. When you are nearer the bike's limits you learn more about how to ride and become more proficient. Loafing around letting the motor do the work teaches only how to work your right wrist. There are other exercises for that.

Of course there is nothing wrong with just taking it easy, and big bikes certainly let you do that. However if you're talking about wanting performance, I'd hope you're talking about your performance, not the bike's. If you're talking about the bike's performance, than anyone with a credit line is minutes away from being skilled.

Also, going back a couple of pages. If two bikes can maintain the same lean angle and one is lighter, the lighter bike will be able to carry more speed at that lean, all other things being equal.
BDMJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 06:18 AM   #129
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,362
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDMJ View Post
Exactly. For many there is much more satisfaction in riding a bike to its limits. With a smaller bike, those limits are far more approachable on the street and on the track. When you are nearer the bike's limits you learn more about how to ride and become more proficient. Loafing around letting the motor do the work teaches only how to work your right wrist. There are other exercises for that.

Of course there is nothing wrong with just taking it easy, and big bikes certainly let you do that. However if you're talking about wanting performance, I'd hope you're talking about your performance, not the bike's. If you're talking about the bike's performance, than anyone with a credit line is minutes away from being skilled.
I have known some riders who had fast, powerful bikes and who knew how to ride them. There are some who buy big bikes for comfort. There are many, however who feel the need for big power to feed their ego.

Some of the slowest bikes I have seen in the mountains have been hayabusa's. The hayabusa is a capable bike but many who buy them have no clue how to ride.

This is a true story:

I was at Deals Gap many years ago hanging out at the store. Some guys from Florida showed up on Hayabusas. I talked to one of them. It was their first time there. So they took off for their first trip through the GAP. I waited for at least 5 minutes then decided to ride through myself. About half way through (4-5 miles), I caught up with them. They where going so slow they were wobbling through the curves. So I passed them, rode to the overlook and hung out for a bit. Eventually they showed up. One of them stopped and promptly fell over

A few of us ran over and helped him pick up his bike. The guy was really embarrassed. He said he couldn't believe he survived all those curves just to drop his bike parking.

I mentioned to him that on these types of roads he would probably have an easier time, more fun and go faster on a smaller, lighter bike.

His response was priceless:

" where I come from, we NEED this kind of power!"



I repressed my desire to burst out laughing and walked away.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 06:26 AM   #130
tkent02
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Littleton, CO
Oddometer: 2,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
(OK, that's from a big bike rider's perspective, compared to small bikes roller coasters might not be that bad.)
You assume we don't have big bikes too. I have several, don't ride them much, becuse they are BORING!
tkent02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 06:49 AM   #131
Wraith Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 1,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Which one of them has 70hp?
There I was referring to the SV650. I wanted to show that I'd prefer the busa over the kilogisser as well as the SV. Jeez!

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
I'll repeat myself/ THE RIDER IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE EQUATION.
The rider is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO THE COMPARISON OF TWO BIKES. It's senseless to put him into the equation because he would completely destroy any comparability of two bikes. How can you not understand that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
I have can find plenty of roads to have fun on, however, the perfect bike depends on which roads I will be riding. I have 2 bikes for the street, one for a mix of street and easy dirt, one for more challenging dirt.
See? I can have fun on EVERY paved road with my bike, I don't have to "find" some. And for under 35...40mph, as in "non-paved areas", I got me an ATV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
As for stepping into competition with others, I don't race on the street, but if I come up behind a slower rider I will pass him. Anyone on a 150+HP, expensive sport bike that I can easily pass on a 250cc scooter is most likely a poser. What's the point of spending all that money on a sport bike and then riding slow?
It would not even come to my mind, that someone might be a poser just because he doesn't ride on the edge of physics all the time. To me that's a very weird assumption and I think it tells more about the one who assumes it than the one he calls a "poser".
I can't speak for others since I never bought a sport bike, but for me the point of buying a powerful bike is that I CAN use the power when I want to as well as I CAN go slow if the mood strikes. It's having the choice everywhere, everytime that makes big bikes so great - and maybe makes one relaxed, not having to dangerously push it all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDMJ View Post
Also, going back a couple of pages. If two bikes can maintain the same lean angle and one is lighter, the lighter bike will be able to carry more speed at that lean, all other things being equal.
But why the heck should the heavier bike not be build to have a little more clearance or a tiny bit higher cog to even that out?
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 06:54 AM   #132
klaviator
Beastly Adventurer
 
klaviator's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2008
Location: Huntsville, AL
Oddometer: 5,362
Two bikes at the same lean angle will be going the same speed, weight doesn't factor into it. However, if the rider hangs off on the inside, it will have more affect on the lighter bike. I have found that the biggest factor in cornering speed is the RIDER, since most don't ride to their bike's limit anyway. The second limit is normally the bikes cornering clearance.
__________________
I ride, Therefore I Am.



klaviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 07:08 AM   #133
tkent02
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Littleton, CO
Oddometer: 2,102
Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Two bikes at the same lean angle will be going the same speed, weight doesn't factor into it.
Weight does not, but wheelbase does. The shorter bike will handle better in corners. It will get around corners quicker while leaning less, be quicker to go from right to left, etc.
tkent02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 07:14 AM   #134
Wraith Rider
Beastly Adventurer
 
Wraith Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Germany
Oddometer: 1,009
Maybe I was a bit confused about that since bigger bikes mostly have bigger tyres.
__________________
"Why not stay in disguise all the time? You know, look like everyone else."
"Because we shouldn't have to."
Wraith Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 07:15 AM   #135
Vertical C
Beastly Adventurer
 
Vertical C's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: On the road in Americas
Oddometer: 1,741
The lighter bike will be putting less force on the tyres at a given angle. Given equal tyres the lighter bike will have more in reserve.
Vertical C is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 12:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014