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Old 02-24-2014, 02:20 PM   #76
tkent02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
To reduce reaction time, not a huge thing at street speeds but a big deal at tracks where you are over a ton the majority of the time.
That's funny, I haven't seen anyone on the track do it. Coming around the apex, the finger eazes off the lever not to be seen again until it's time to slow down. Cornerworking gives a pretty good viewpoint.

But we were talking about newbs on the street, where it's even more ludicrous.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:01 PM   #77
Tripped1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
That's funny, I haven't seen anyone on the track do it. Coming around the apex, the finger eazes off the lever not to be seen again until it's time to slow down. Cornerworking gives a pretty good viewpoint.

But we were talking about newbs on the street, where it's even more ludicrous.
I've always ridden that way, since about 5-6 years before I could drive a car, some do some don't.

Like I said, I have a hard time controlling the throttle with all four fingers on it.
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Show folks something with a clutch and carburetor, and it's like teaching a baboon to use a Macbook.
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Old 02-25-2014, 03:45 AM   #78
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You can learn to precisely control the throttle without bracing your hand on the brake lever. It just takes practice.

Much like some guitar players must anchor their picking hand on the body of the guitar to pick accurately. While a truly good player can float their hand over the guitar and play with precision.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:06 AM   #79
fastdadio
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Originally Posted by trc.rhubarb View Post
One finger on the brake and three on the gas, hey
Well, there's too much traffic, I can't pass, no
So I tried my best illegal move
A big black and white come and crushed my groove again

Go on and write me up for 125
Post my face, wanted dead or alive
Take my license, all that jive
I can't drive 55
Thanks, now I'll have this tune stuck in my head all fakkin day!
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:44 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by bracky72 View Post
You can learn to precisely control the throttle without bracing your hand on the brake lever. It just takes practice.
But why? Like I said I have NO issue standing either of my bikes on their nose, none, and I ride at and advanced track pace at most tracks that I have ridden on.

So what is the issue? Other than arguing with MSF instructors about it

I do the same with my clutch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bracky72 View Post
Much like some guitar players must anchor their picking hand on the body of the guitar to pick accurately. While a truly good player can float their hand over the guitar and play with precision.
I've played guitar for 20 years as well, I anchor when I'm strumming and curl my pinky in playing single string, that is a consequence of the type of musics I play though, with my hand curled I'm dragging the outside of my pinky on the strings palm muting, which hurts.
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Show folks something with a clutch and carburetor, and it's like teaching a baboon to use a Macbook.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:40 AM   #81
Alexander B
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Having ridden quite a bit (as a "learner", with a friend) a few years at age around 18-20, I finally went back to driving school two decades later to get a MC license.
I think the first comment from the instructor was to "get those fingers off of the brake lever". In Sweden, you will fail your driver's test if you do not keep away from the lever. Also, when braking, you HAVE to use all four fingers. Gee, on my XT660R, it is a bit tight even to fit three fingers. And for many bikes, two or three fingers makes it easier to modulate the force, IMHO.
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:35 PM   #82
tkent02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander B View Post
Having ridden quite a bit (as a "learner", with a friend) a few years at age around 18-20, I finally went back to driving school two decades later to get a MC license.
I think the first comment from the instructor was to "get those fingers off of the brake lever". In Sweden, you will fail your driver's test if you do not keep away from the lever. Also, when braking, you HAVE to use all four fingers. Gee, on my XT660R, it is a bit tight even to fit three fingers. And for many bikes, two or three fingers makes it easier to modulate the force, IMHO.
What they teach in an absolute beginner class is not necesarily the best for every experienced rider at all times. I agree with his first comment, about keeping the fingers off th levers, but not his second about using four fingers.

Most of my bikes have levers too short for four fingers. Works fine for me.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:11 PM   #83
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There are three reasons I use two fingers on the brake. First is to help stabilize the throttle when riding at a constant speed. Second is for a quicker reaction time. Third is to blip for downshifts while braking for a corner.

Over the years, it's become so automatic that I seldom think about it.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:15 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
There are three reasons I use two fingers on the brake. First is to help stabilize the throttle when riding at a constant speed. Second is for a quicker reaction time. Third is to blip for downshifts while braking for a corner.

Over the years, it's become so automatic that I seldom think about it.
I tried curling my first two fingers down this morning on the way to work.

....my gloves are broken in ALL wrong for that.
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Show folks something with a clutch and carburetor, and it's like teaching a baboon to use a Macbook.
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:45 PM   #85
tkent02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
There are three reasons I use two fingers on the brake. First is to help stabilize the throttle when riding at a constant speed.
Seems a silly bandaid for a poor throttle technique problem.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Second is for a quicker reaction time.
When that is needed, I'll put a finger up on the lever.




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Third is to blip for downshifts while braking for a corner.

Everyone does that, while downshifting and braking into a corner.

The rest of the time?
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:37 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
Seems a silly bandaid for a poor throttle technique problem.
Not really. It makes it easy to hold a position without having to grip the throttle tightly. Friction between glove and grip is all that's needed. My version of a throttle lock.

Quote:
When that is needed, I'll put a finger up on the lever.
By then, it's too late, isn't it?

Quote:
Everyone does that, while downshifting and braking into a corner.

The rest of the time?
See number one, shit-stirrer!
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:02 PM   #87
tkent02
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post

By then, it's too late, isn't it?
Not so far. My spidey senses are pretty sharp.



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See number one, shit-stirrer!
OK.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:23 PM   #88
Mr Head
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I was trained by two different off road training schools to ride with two fingers on clutch and front brake. Jimmy Lewis showed us this. The first high performance off road school I took I learned to stop a dirt bike with nothing more than the front brake. Coming from a couple of decades of street and track riding I was amazed at what could be done in the dirt.
Jimmy Lewis' program is by far the best money I ever spent on any schooling. ANY.
I learned to ride that big overweight 1150 Adventure. I never learned to like sand but I got better at riding in that crap.

What I learned form taking formal off road instruction taught me that most of what my bud's told me about riding in the dirt was bullshit that would get me hurt.

I've always covered the front brake and the clutch since beginning riding. The only times I did not was during the two times I had to take the riding exam for my endorsement. I knew if I did not have my full hand on the bar at nearly all times I'd be failed. I ignore most of what the state considers good safety practice.

When I switched form the big 1150 Adventure with ABS to the 990R without I've had to re-train myself to not be a dumbass braking. The ABS will let you do things that will knock you down without that tool. But, I have about 30 years riding experience without the benefit of ABS so re-training hasn't taken long.
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:26 PM   #89
Alexander B
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Clarification; it was not just HIS opinion, it was a condition to finally pass the test with official, "federal" inspector. Having ridden for a couple of years, I really had to work to "un-learn" my two fingers on the lever style...
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Old 02-26-2014, 03:37 PM   #90
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Laugh two on the brake

one in the air!
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