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Old 02-08-2014, 09:20 PM   #46
Wraith Rider
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
I bought an R1100GS primarily as a street bike that I could occasionally take on a dirt road. Useless?
You could have stopped writing here because you alredy stated you got her for occasionally dirt road riding. That's exactly what these bikes are made for so you made the right choice.
However, the sacrifice is that on the street the street-specialized bikes you mentioned work slightly better. (For the Venture I don't know it but for the sports bikes it's quite clear.)
I chose a similar compromise but I don't lie to myself about the bike being as good as a specialized one.

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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
One of the biggest advantages of most ADV style bikes is the wide handlebars and upright seating position which makes them feel lighter.
To me that would be more of a disadvantage. I don't get all the guys who cripple their sports tourers with bar risers and the like.
I really like the stable and precise feel of the sporty geometry and that I - as well as the bike for that matter - am not to flip over backwards while accelerating. The a bit indifferent feel between the legs on ADV bikes as well is not made for me.

That's a thing of personal preference. It's alright if it's better for you on ADV style bikes, but it's no general advantage - there's a reason why street bikes developed in another direction.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:47 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
You could have stopped writing here because you alredy stated you got her for occasionally dirt road riding. That's exactly what these bikes are made for so you made the right choice.
However, the sacrifice is that on the street the street-specialized bikes you mentioned work slightly better. (For the Venture I don't know it but for the sports bikes it's quite clear.)
I chose a similar compromise but I don't lie to myself about the bike being as good as a specialized one.

To me that would be more of a disadvantage. I don't get all the guys who cripple their sports tourers with bar risers and the like.
I really like the stable and precise feel of the sporty geometry and that I - as well as the bike for that matter - am not to flip over backwards while accelerating. The a bit indifferent feel between the legs on ADV bikes as well is not made for me.

That's a thing of personal preference. It's alright if it's better for you on ADV style bikes, but it's no general advantage - there's a reason why street bikes developed in another direction.
There is a reason why so many people buy ADV style bikes even if they have no plans of riding off road. Overall, they work better than the more specialized bikes.

I bought my R1100GS to replace my Yamaha Venture:



In many ways the R1100GS was a better touring bike than the Venture although I did have to invest in a Corbin seat to make the GS comfortable on a long ride. The GS had a better ride, and it handled better, on or off the pavement. The GS had the added bonus of being a VERY GOOD sport bike on the tight twisty roads that I prefer to ride. When riding with guys on bikes like Duc 916, Honda CBR900RR, KAW ZX-11, etc, I never felt like I was at any disadvantage until speeds got over 100MPH. We seldom rode that fast. I also thought that the GS was more comfortable than any of those sport bikes. I really don't see how I was compromising with the GS. Buying a sport bike would have been a compromise. Besides, I also had a sportbike when I got the GS.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:09 PM   #48
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There is a reason why so many people buy ADV style bikes even if they have no plans of riding off road. Overall, they work better than the more specialized bikes.
Yeah like SUVs are the better overall street-cars and perform as well as sports cars. Sure.

Really, I don't have a problem with the SUV-bike-craze, whatever makes you happy - no matter if it's a HD or a SUV-bike. But why try to convince everyone it was as good as a sports bike as a sports bike? If that was the case, sports bikes would look like SUV-bikes.
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Old 02-09-2014, 12:40 AM   #49
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"But why try to convince everyone it was as good as a sports bike as a sports bike?"

is someone claiming this? No, ADV bikes are never AS sporty as a dedicated sportsbike, BUT the sportiest ADV bikes can actually satisfy almost everybody except the most dedicated sportsbike riders, AND at the same time, they can do shitload of other staff, that true sportsbikes would be very uncomfortable for. Any less than perfect road surfaces, and the difference becomes even more clear. Someone like you might still want to torture themselves on a sportsbike, and think it's the best choice. Go ahead, it's a free world.
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:09 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
is someone claiming this?
klaviator is.

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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
I bought an R1100GS primarily as a street bike that I could occasionally take on a dirt road.
[...]
It worked as well as my buddies Duc 916/GSXR750/900RR etc for sport riding in the smokies.
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Someone like you might still want to torture themselves on a sportsbike, and think it's the best choice. Go ahead, it's a free world.
Again you are proving that you know nothing about "someone like me". I never tortured myself on a sportsbike. I don't even ride them for extended periods of time.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:32 AM   #51
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don't get me wrong, I've had some of the best rides and track days on a full-on sportsbike. But they just aren't very comfortable, they are focussed on sportiness, comfort is secondary. Carrying travel stuff on them is a bitch, too.
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Old 02-09-2014, 02:49 AM   #52
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I'm actually surprised that there is even a debate regarding the real world performance of ADV v's sports bikes. I ride with a number of clubs which comprise a mix of ADV and sports bikes of around the 1 liter capacity. Over a typical 400? kilometer day ride comprising good fast experienced riders but who still want to keep their licence, there will be no noticeable performance difference between the ADV and sports bike riders. None, zero, zilch. Everyone gets from point A to point B within a few minutes of each other.

Probably the only difference I can see is in the clubs with younger riders (under 35) they want to be able to ride their sport bikes at track days.
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:16 AM   #53
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don't get me wrong, I've had some of the best rides and track days on a full-on sportsbike. But they just aren't very comfortable, they are focussed on sportiness, comfort is secondary.
See? Now we are using the same language.

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no noticeable performance difference between the ADV and sports bike riders. None, zero, zilch. Everyone gets from point A to point B within a few minutes of each other.
IF it was because of the bike, what I don't think, I'd consider several minutes a quite noticeable difference.
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:04 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
IF it was because of the bike, what I don't think, I'd consider several minutes a quite noticeable difference.
Club riders are not on a race track, they are generally on narrow winding public roads being shared with other vehicles. Any spirited group ride I've ever been on arrives at the next location a bit spread out, primarily because of overtaking opportunities, and those game (or stupid depending on your point of view) to overtake where other will not.
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Old 02-09-2014, 04:17 AM   #55
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In my experience with group rides the fast ones got away because they were faster, only seldom because of overtaking opportunities (small winding backroads with little traffic), and waited at the next intersection.
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Old 02-09-2014, 05:27 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
klaviator is.
.
??????

You are putting words into my mouth. I said that on the roads and conditions that I normally rode on, I did not feel any I was at any disadvantage on my GS. Different roads and higher speeds might have been different. I don't have anything against sport bikes. However, for the riding I do, an ADV style bike simply works better and makes more sense. If my idea of riding was to ride long distance on high speed roads then I would consider a sport touring bike.

However, we don't really have "high speed roads" here in the U. S. The closest we have are interstate highways which which tend to be boring so I avoid them as much as possible.

If I ever decide to do track days I may get a sport bike although I'd get something around 600cc or smaller, not a big bike.
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:20 AM   #57
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I put nothing into your mouth. You said something about "riding in the smokies" and you didn't feel any "disadvantage until speed got over 100mph". So I thought we were talking about exactly that.

Just to clarify it, is this (speed in kph, not mph)



a long distance on a high speed road for you? (The friendly guys in blue at the beginning are our policemen, their car is seen again later in the video.)
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Old 02-09-2014, 06:49 AM   #58
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I put nothing into your mouth. You said something about "riding in the smokies" and you didn't feel any "disadvantage until speed got over 100mph". So I thought we were talking about exactly that.

Just to clarify it, is this (speed in kph, not mph)



a long distance on a high speed road for you? (The friendly guys in blue at the beginning are our policemen, their car is seen again later in the video.)
That road looks like a German Version of Deal's Gap, complete with police and way too much traffic. Deals Gap also appears to be twistier although that is sometimes hard to tell from a video. Unfortunately, the speed limit at Deals Gap has been dropped to 30 MPH and is heavily enforced. It used to be 55.

Many of my favorite roads have much tighter curves than the one in your video. Some of them also turn into dirt at some point.
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:03 AM   #59
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Dirt is a completely different story, as I said in the beginning, if you stay on paved roads all the time and never ever go dirt, then go for the ST bike. When you talked about riding together with sport bikes under 100mph I didn't know you really meant riding under 40mph, partly on dirt.

Speed limit in my video is 50kph = 31mph and over the rumble strips 30kph = 19mph.
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:15 AM   #60
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Dirt is a completely different story, as I said in the beginning, if you stay on paved roads all the time and never ever go dirt, then go for the ST bike.
We can't really do that here. Staying on paved road eliminates about 90% of the roads in my state.
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