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Old 02-09-2014, 07:16 AM   #61
klaviator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
Dirt is a completely different story, as I said in the beginning, if you stay on paved roads all the time and never ever go dirt, then go for the ST bike. When you talked about riding together with sport bikes under 100mph I didn't know you really meant riding under 40mph, partly on dirt.

Speed limit in my video is 50kph = 31mph and over the rumble strips 30kph = 19mph.
I was riding purely on pavement with the sport bikes and generally at speeds between 40 and 80 MPH, occasionally 80-100. Once I got my first real dual sport bike I started exploring more and found many great paved roads that turned into dirt, then back into pavement. Not only are these roads fun but have little traffic and virtually no police.

Where someone rides will partly dictate what bike works best. Although I have never ridden in Europe, I have done some driving in Germany and Italy. The roads and driving conditions are considerably different. If I lived in Germany I would not have the same bikes I have now. I recently moved from Georgia to Alabama and the conditions are different enough that my bikes are no longer as good of a fit as they were in Georgia. I do plan on buying something more powerful than what I have now although nothing near 150 HP and nothing over 500 lbs.

So, how much experience do you have on American roads?
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:21 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Colorado_Rider View Post
So I'm curious what the advantages and disadvantanges there are between a long travel bike vs a short travel bike on paved roads. If one isn't planning on riding dirt, and still looking for a really nice handing bike, is there any reason at all to look at bikes like the MTS1200?
The big adventure bikes are pretty much the same as the sport touring bikes in general equipment or ability to equip them. Obviously there are the differences that make for the sport versus adventure, but that may be beside the point for you. If you have leanings toward harder sport riding then the sport tourer makes sense, but even then there are divisions within the rank itself when you compare even the Kawasaki Concours versus the ZX10 sport tourer that just came out. Same is true with the adventure bikes, some better than others when hitting the rough stuff and all.

Now I cannot speak for you and others, but for me the big difference is in the ergonomics. I found I do not work well with the sport and even sport touring set up. Just never been comfortable and now with knees starting to show age it is just that much worse. I also found I absolutely love the dual sport/adventure bike set up. So much like the off roaders and flat tracker I had and enjoyed. It just works well for me and they handle well enough for me to ride one with the guys even on the sport bikes in general riding. So I will give up that extra speed and edge in handling for the ability to be comfortable in seating virtually 100% of the time anytime versus maybe 20% of the time when at speeed.

Then there is the suspension. In many cases more is better, especially after a midwest winter ravages the roads. Besides you might just find that not planning on dirt roads to change once you find you can do so with reasonable comfort. I'm not talking all the goofy ass rock strewn or muddy rutty crap, I'm just talking about a nice graded back road that can be so inviting when the bike is right.

Oh, by the way, I'm sure there are those who road race their GSs and those who motocross their GSXRs, that is not the norm and I am covering the norm here. So save it for some other argument. This is about honest to goodness differences, which aren't as wide and varied as expected.
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:35 AM   #63
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Maybe the perfect stable is one ST and one ADV bike?

You could tour on either and be better suited to bendy roads or gravel depending on the plan...


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Old 02-09-2014, 07:39 AM   #64
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There is another issue that has not been discussed. Roads like the one in Wraith rider's video or Deals Gap tend to become very popular with the sport bike crowd. They are well paved, relatively predictable and easy to ride fast on. They also tend to be heavily patrolled and have way too much traffic. Since I like to go fast enough to have some fun and speed limits tend to be too low, I avoid the more popular roads and ride the ones that aren't so popular. These roads often have tight curves, less than perfect pavement and sometimes turn into dirt. An ADV or dual sport bike simply works better on these roads. I used to ride sport bikes but back when I did, many of my favorite roads had higher speed limits and much less enforcement.

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Old 02-09-2014, 07:46 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
..... Unfortunately, the speed limit at Deals Gap has been dropped to 30 MPH and is heavily enforced. It used to be 55.
.
Damn, why in the heck would anyone even want to go mess with riding Deal's Gap anymore?
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:55 AM   #66
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Damn, why in the heck would anyone even want to go mess with riding Deal's Gap anymore?
If you catch it at the right time, it can still be fun. Mainly I go there because it's a fun place to hang out and there are plenty of great roads, paved and unpaved, in the area.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:03 AM   #67
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I took this pic on a road that I have never seen a sport bike or cop on. Great paved twisties at both ends but about 2 miles of gravel in the middle. If I was still riding a sport bike I would probably have missed out.



No, don't ask me where it is but not too far from Deals Gap.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:03 AM   #68
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@klaviator
40 to 80? Than I think I hit the nail on the head with my video. So we were talking about the same conditions. Nothing put into your mouth.
Germany and Italy are part of Europe. I have no experience with American roads, but was in Italy too, north (Varadero 125 over the Alps) and south as well including the Montalto (dirt, dropping my CBF 600 two times) and I went through Serbia and Bulgaria to Turkey and the Greek island Lesbos (with that same CBF 600). The burst open roads in Turkey where quite impressive.
Of course visited the Alps with the big girls (ZZR 1400 and VFR 1200) as well, but the Austrian roads are very very nice, better maintained than the German ones.
Looking forward to take my VFR to the Scottish Highlands this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkent02 View Post
We can't really do that here. Staying on paved road eliminates about 90% of the roads in my state.
Than I'd say an ADV style bike is the completely right choice. :-)

@markk53
I know the American standards of sports tourers are a bit... well, you call it a sports tourer as soon as it has full fairing... but let me put in an european view: The Conny is a full on tourer, nothing sporty about her. The sport toury counterpart of the Conny would be the ZZR 1400 or as far as I know it's called Ninja ZX-1400 in the USA.

@klaviator again
The road on your photo wouldn't be a problem for any sports bike. However, no matter what bike I'm on, I'm not particulary fond of hairpins, they are just so unharmonic to ride and tend to drop out of the stable riding speeds (>20mph). On the other hand, as seen in my vid, I have no problems with our friends and helpers or other traffic.

P.S.: For the nice pics.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:12 AM   #69
klaviator
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Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post
@klaviator

@markk53
I know the American standards of sports tourers are a bit... well, you call it a sports tourer as soon as it has full fairing... but let me put in an european view: The Conny is a full on tourer, nothing sporty about her. The sport toury counterpart of the Conny would be the ZZR 1400 or as far as I know it's called Ninja ZX-1400 in the USA.
We don't get many of the bikes here that you do. This is the land of "bigger is better" so most of our sport touring bikes are over 1200cc and 600 lbs.

I put over 66,000 miles and up to 700 miles a day on my old sport touring bike:

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Old 02-10-2014, 12:37 PM   #70
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There was an article somewhere a couple years ago about a test between sport tourers, and the camera/chase bike was a R1200GS. By the end of the weekend, all the riders involved in the test agreed that he best sport tourer they had ridden was.....the GS.

I think the point is, unless you are planning on traveling at high warp speeds on the interstate for days on end, an adventure type bike has a more comfortable seating position, better suspension, handles just as good or better in the twisties, and can explore those gravel and dirt side roads without the fear of scratching the $hit out of your fairings if you drop it in the gravel at 2 mph.

EDIT:

Found that article, there's a link. Pretty good read.

http://www.mcnews.com/mcn/model_eval/2010AugGS.pdf
There are some of us who have found the newer GSs more comfortable (1-up) on long rides than the ST or most LT bikes for all the reasons mentioned above. Suggesting such, though, can strain your relations with the LT crowd.
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:04 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraith Rider View Post

@markk53
I know the American standards of sports tourers are a bit... well, you call it a sports tourer as soon as it has full fairing... but let me put in an european view: The Conny is a full on tourer, nothing sporty about her. The sport toury counterpart of the Conny would be the ZZR 1400 or as far as I know it's called Ninja ZX-1400 in the USA.



P.S.: For the nice pics.
There is a difference because of the kind of country the U.S. is. The biggest surprise to most Europeans when they visit the U.S. is just how HUGE it is. There is so much open roadways that bikes like the Wings and Harley dressers are totally in their element. From what I understand Europe has NOTHING like I-70 running across the flat lands of the midwest. Probably as much as 1500 flat straight miles of freeway interrupted only by the ramps and such of the next city it goes through. And that's just one east-west interstate. There are the north-south an other east-west ones. A touring bike here is a freaking tank with trick sound systems, cruise control, blue tooth, Barcalounger quality seating, cup holders to be installed and a hitch to pull the trailer to haul all the junk found at the flea markets and gift shops encountered on the way. Most tourers here would consider your "tourers" to be road racer excuses for such, they don't like to "lay down on the gas tank". Stuff we often heard in the bike shop. Thus the difference in designation from there to here.

When selling, we differentiated between models within the genre of sport tourers. An ST emphasized tour over sport, where the FJR emphasized the sport over tour. The Concours C10 kind of split it. The C14 is huge and I have to agree it is more tour than sport, but no Gold Wing. The new ZX10 sport tour is more like hanging bags off a VFR back in the day.

By the way, we'd be sliding our dual sport/supermotos around the bends over that bridge. That's just plain fun.
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:30 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
From what I understand Europe has NOTHING like I-70 running across the flat lands of the midwest. Probably as much as 1500 flat straight miles of freeway interrupted only by the ramps and such of the next city it goes through. And that's just one east-west interstate. There are the north-south an other east-west ones.
Thankfully California doesn't have many roads like that either.

You flat-landers seem proud of your long straight roads. I would be bored out of my mind if that was all that was available to ride on. I'll stick to the west side of the continental divide, thanks.
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Old 02-10-2014, 05:49 PM   #73
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Thankfully California doesn't have many roads like that either.

You flat-landers seem proud of your long straight roads. I would be bored out of my mind if that was all that was available to ride on. I'll stick to the west side of the continental divide, thanks.
+1, if I lived in a flat place I'd move. Before I got there.
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #74
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Cool2 ADV vs ST?

I've been riding Triumph Tiger 955's for 10 years after a youth spent on sportbikes/sport tourers. I added a 2008 KLR650 as a commuter/off-roader.
2006 Tiger:


2008 KLR



I set up my 2006 Tiger as a road-only bike for long trips and fun weekend runs, but started to think about upgrading the bike's suspension to make it a better road bike. Just as I was about to sink $3000 into the suspension, I had an epiphany - Stop trying to make the Adventure bike something it isn't, just sell it and grab a great Sport-Tourer. The KLR will handle the adventure duties - it's lighter, simpler, powerful enough for the off-road world, and I won't weep when I slam it down.

It's hard to let go of the Triumph, but this made so much sense. Now my long tourer is a modern, technology-laden bike with power to spare, ABS, TC and a host of other goodies I can get use out of. This beauty should arrive by transporter this weekend.

2011 K1300s


Together with the KLR I have both worlds well covered. I sadly put the Tiger back to stock (mostly) and soon it goes up for sale. I'm looking forward to the next chapter..........
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:18 PM   #75
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Get both.
^^^that.
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