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Old 02-24-2014, 12:41 PM   #136
GDI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikDK View Post
What on earth made you think that a shop tech can find a fault like that?
They said the could and they did?


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Originally Posted by ErikDK View Post
Fault finding sucks for them, as they'd much rather be doing regular servicing, billing 2 hours per 60 minutes spent.

Fault codes merely tell you which areas you should be logging real-time values for while riding.
I'm not sure what you mean by logging values. . . .


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Stuff like that is what internet forums are for, places where people who actually give a fook about a certain kind of bike can meet and discuss problem areas particular to that model do death.
Yeah, I tried that. There were some well-meaning folks that gave some assistance, but I didn't feel up to the challenge. Considering the path that finding the problem took, I'm was glad to have someone else do it. Could I have done it? Probably, if I'd had just the right help from someone that knew what to do, AND I didn't smoke some other $$$ part accidentally, or wreck something stupid just taking the bike apart and putting it back together. Working on 'em is hard enough when they're not broken!

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Old 02-24-2014, 01:24 PM   #137
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I'm not sure what you mean by logging values. . . .

GDI
Let's say your TPS is acting up. Then you select to log TPS values and engine rpm vs time and go for a ride with much variation in throttle position as well as longer periods of steady throttle at a speed known to give faults from time to time, until yiu actually get the fault.
After returning, you look at the graph to see if there are missing or suspicious values, indicating either a worn part of the resistor path or connections making and breaking.
The ECU does a much better job than you can do with a multimeter and wiggly connections at the plug, and it does is while actually riding.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:46 PM   #138
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The Versys did store some error codes. . . . Is that what you mean by logging? Or, is there some other component that must be added to a stock configuration to perform logging? I'm not a tech, and the folks on the Versys forum never mentioned this type of logging either.

The errors I was getting occurred during the initialization before start-up. At first it was throwing these codes, but it seemed to ride normally. After a while it was lunging and bucking to the point that riding was quite difficult, and the problem could no longer be ignored. There was nothing wrong with the TPS anyway, the errors were all "phantoms" in the sense that the wiring harness was "lying" about what was going on in the TPS and later, the ECU itself. I would have to guess that logging wouldn't be very effective in this scenario?

To my way of thinking the carbies are better after something goes wrong. Generally they can be cleaned up and put back together and they'll work like new. I know there are exceptions where parts can get worn out by dirt and age (torn diaphragms, worn jets, holes in floats), but generally they're pretty robust. My hesitation to getting in up to my elbows with fuel injection stems from the fact that shorting something out is pretty unforgiving. Once the smoke is out, there's pretty much no option other than buying a new part. When you're a noob like me, that's a pretty high bar to clear--a man's got to know his limitations.

So, no--I didn't even check voltages at the plug of the TPS. All I did was read error codes off using the diagnostic port. I had no way of knowing at the time, but considering the winding path that lead to the solution, I probably would have never figured it out myself anyway. As it was the bike was still drivable, so I managed to take it in without trailering it.

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Old 02-25-2014, 12:56 PM   #139
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No, logging demands that you connect the Kawasaki or 3rd-party diagnostic tool (No not a code reader) to the diagnostic port of the bike and leave it connected while taking a ride.
The diagnostic tool will then monitor the various sensor values at specific intervals and store them in memory, allowing them to be played back on the screen, like an electro cardiogram. (EEG)

If you go to http://www.healtech-electronics.com/ you can download a demo version of their program for Suzuki's
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:29 PM   #140
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.

A one time $200 investment is nothing in a bike budget.
That's 1/4 of my total buy-in price
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:34 PM   #141
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You might think that, but they did! The tech had isolated the problem to one particular connector. Rather than replace the whole wiring harness with new, which would have been more costly in terms of time and parts, they bought a used wiring harness off of a Kawasaki 650r Ninja. They cut the connector off and soldered it in place of the defective one on my bike.
I agree with the fix, but not with the method. They should have removed the offending pin(s) from the connector and replaced it (them) (or replaced the connetor housing if it was at fault), instead of making a bunch of new solder joints (that may eventually fail).
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Old 02-26-2014, 12:42 AM   #142
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i agree with the fix, but not with the method. They should have removed the offending pin(s) from the connector and replaced it (them) (or replaced the connetor housing if it was at fault), instead of making a bunch of new solder joints (that may will eventually fail).

fixt
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Old 02-26-2014, 05:51 AM   #143
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Now, don't burst Randyo's bubble.

He insists on ranting about the unreliable EFI on his year-round on salty roads ridden V-Strom 1000, when he could buy a $200 diagnostic tool that would tell him exactly which sensor was acting up due to corroded connections.
A diagnostic tool with real-time logging during riding.

A one time $200 investment is nothing in a bike budget.
and you know this cause your a factory trained mechanic ?


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Not actually true, but a common assumption. A sensor can be an indication of a mechanical problem. If the sensor tests good but is throwing a code, then you have to look at what mechanical issues could cause that code. If you know how to troubleshoot then the OBD does make it easier, but many thousands of dollars are wasted by techs assuming that the OBD tells them everything they need to know.
this is what my mechanic has been running into
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Old 02-26-2014, 07:58 AM   #144
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I agree with the fix, but not with the method. They should have removed the offending pin(s) from the connector and replaced it (them) (or replaced the connetor housing if it was at fault), instead of making a bunch of new solder joints (that may eventually fail).
Hmmm. . . . well, yeah. It doesn't have to last forever, though. I'll be happy if it lasts 'til I'm done with it. I'm hoping the tech was thorough and careful. It may not be as reliable as carbs, but what you gonna do?

No, seriously--there was no similar cases on other Versyss (Versy? Versi?) when I looked online. That, to me, is an indication of how reliable EFI is.

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Old 02-26-2014, 08:18 AM   #145
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and you know this cause your a factory trained mechanic ?
Nothing you have posted speaks against it.

The concept of analyzing logged sensor values, like an EEG, as opposed to measuring here-and-now values is alien to most of the technicians I've dealt with.
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Old 02-26-2014, 08:25 AM   #146
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and you know this cause your a factory trained mechanic ?
Have you EVER seen anything that gives you the impression that the "factory trained" mechanics know their ass from a hole in the wall?
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Old 02-27-2014, 07:18 AM   #147
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I prefer the word and concept that the old has been "proven."

Some has been proven lousy. Other has been proven reliable.
The old that has survived and is desirable is proven reliable.
This. It is like music that used to be so much better in the olden days, but then we forget that all the crap that coexisted just got forgotten over time and only the good is remembered.

Apart from that, when we tried to find the fault of our old, ultra reliable and low tech Land Cruiser in Turkmenistan, the Russian mechanics' first question was where the computer was

Well there really was no computer in this car, but it took the Bosch Service guys (where we ended up after a few days) several days to track down the problem to a torn diaphragm. So much to easily serviceable low tech machinery. It can be a pain in the ass to diagnose a problem.

To be fair, apart from that it was an awesome car, nearly indestructible and easy to fix on the road side.
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Old 02-28-2014, 02:10 AM   #148
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Have you EVER seen anything that gives you the impression that the "factory trained" mechanics know their ass from a hole in the wall?
I΄ve got a trusted mechanic, who has looked after my bikes for almost 10 years now. Never a service-related problem, ever... and he knows FI inside out, too, he΄s even adjusted them for just about perfect throttle response.

Guys like this are few and far between, though.
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Old 02-28-2014, 03:16 AM   #149
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As I tell my wife when she comments on the number of boots or jackets I own, the right gear is essential for the given set of circumstances. I know we've all been through this argument with our better half and it is a winnable argument, especially when we point at the other side of the closet.

Hey ...I am a guy ha ha

Lately it's been getting a bit tougher to convince her, though, as my new collection seems to consist of motorcycles for different situations. At this point I have a BMW R1150RT for road riding, distance, and comfort - sort of the Rockport of motorcycles. Comfortable for walking but stay on the trail. I recently acquired a pair of heavy backpacking boots in the guise of an '89 R100GS. They say it'll go anywhere but when I compare it to my trail running boots - the Husqvarna TE250, I have my doubts.

I am so cool and I own so many bikes

So I'm re-evaluating my options and requirements and have a philosophical question for those who've been bumping around this prison a bit longer than I have. The GS is a beautiful machine. Utilitarian, simple, and, well, old. I've read threads where people perform heart surgery on their dead GS's in the middle of a swamp that happens to be in the middle of a desert on top of a mountain on Mars. But that was only after they spent the equivalent of a new bike preparing their "reliable old" GS for said misadventure. And the time it took to get the machine ready. And all the lying about prices as box after box arrives in a string of brown trucks.

I am a prostitute who cannot write.

On the other hand, there is some right nice technology out there in the form of things like the KTM 990, 1190, watercooled GS, etc. ABS to keep you from skidding. Fuel injection to keep you from jetting. GPS to keep you from wandering. Fortunately there is such a thing as SPOT so when these bikes suddenly stop - like you do when you're in bed with the missus and a sick rugrat appears and vomits all over the bed - the rescue chopper can find you and air lift you and said technological marvel to safety.

We are asleep. But don't stop now.

My question is, to the wise old inmates who've done the trips and learned the hard way, which is preferable? The GS is cool, has a certain wow factor, and does lend itself to roadside repairs. I'm as handy as I need to be and have the scared knuckles to prove it. And there's a whole cottage industry around keeping the things running (data point!) But at some point I'd rather be writing than riding , you know. There is only so much time and I already waste a good chunk lurking here! ABS and fuel injection are very nice. And the likelihood of my doing and RTW trip is... well... about like getting my kids off the family tit. It'll happen when I die. Most of my riding is close to home with an occasional trip out west every other year or so.
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I'm a whiney bitch. Weigh in - be brutal - I like it when it hurts.

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Old 02-28-2014, 10:46 AM   #150
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I΄ve got a trusted mechanic, who has looked after my bikes for almost 10 years now. Never a service-related problem, ever... and he knows FI inside out, too, he΄s even adjusted them for just about perfect throttle response.

Guys like this are few and far between, though.
You need to redo your sig-line Pecha72. The list of countries you've not ridden in would be shorter than the list that you have!

Seriously, I'd be interested in hearing any of your thoughts on this subject regarding what's worked and what hasn't. I would imagine with some miles like that on the ODO that you have some decent stats to share.
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