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Old 02-18-2014, 05:20 PM   #226
Kiko
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Okay Merlin III, I get your drift on that now. On the side, any rich privileged Mexican who would call the Federal government to intervene on their behalf in a kidnapping case is probably just stupid.

In 2012 about 287 Mexicans a day were kidnapped. Practically all of those victims were innocents.

Fewer than 1% of kidnappings in Mexico are reported to the police and for good reason. Hope some leads turn up soon.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:23 PM   #227
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Oh shit. I'm using my phone and I didn't mean to post all that. Anyway, I hope Harry is only kidnapped.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:07 PM   #228
Klutch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiko View Post
Okay Merlin III, I get your drift on that now. On the side, any rich privileged Mexican who would call the Federal government to intervene on their behalf in a kidnapping case is probably just stupid.

In 2012 about 287 Mexicans a day were kidnapped. Practically all of those victims were innocents.

Fewer than 1% of kidnappings in Mexico are reported to the police and for good reason. Hope some leads turn up soon.
Kiko,
How reliable is http://www.inegi.org.mx/?

We haven't lived in Nayarit for long but all the locals we know around here will call the police in a heartbeat if they even suspect a crime. Many of them are from Michoacan, Jalisco and the DF.
All of our neighbors from Michoacan have never personally known anyone who has been kidnapped. A couple have volunteered to take me along Harry's last known route since they drive it a couple of times a month but I figured we'd just be in the way of people that know what they're doing.
I'm a noob down here so I don't really "know" anything. I'm trying hard to learn from the locals and be respectful at the same time.
Sure hope some good news surfaces regarding Harry soon!!
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:03 PM   #229
Kiko
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Inegi maps are good. I use E32 cartografia because I ride off-road. Amazed that your friends from Michoacan do not know of any kidnappings in their area.

This thread is about finding Harry, and I don't want to go off topic here. I love it here in Mexico, unfortunately at times, there are some unpleasant realities to deal with here, if you have any specific questions about anything feel free to pm me.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:01 AM   #230
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It would be a shame for a thread serving such a noble cause to be reduced to xenophobia. Mexico has always been easily sensationalized in the US. For many of the very reasons it offers such great travel experiences. I know expats living all around Mexico and they all enjoy a lifestyle of travel there.

Keep praying for Harry.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:22 AM   #231
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Well said Mike...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post
Give it a rest.
You know zero about the current situation here.
You know next to nothing about cartels.
In fact, only a handful of people on this thread have any current and useful knowledge fron within Mexico. You know zero about Mexican youth.
One missing American under strange circumstances and a pile of gringos collectively crap themselves in fear of coming to Mexico, yet a kid murders children in cold blood in a school in the USA and you dont see Mexicans cancelling trips to Disneyland.
They have taken the effort to learn about their neighbors, try doing the same.
Maybe if the US president didnt have an agency reading the emails of the Mexican president, that president might cooperate a little.
Americans love to come here after breaking laws at home, Americans have come here looking to disappear, makes things tough for those who actually need to be found.
If you believe Mexico is too dangerous for you to be here just stay home. Dont go trying to appear you know anything about Mexico unless you live here and ride here or at least have covered serious miles over many years. If not, you are just another tourist.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:24 AM   #232
OverlandRider33
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Mexico is a huge country and I've been there at least a half-dozen times. The Yucatan area and Baja areas are very safe, and other places, like in Mexico City, you just have to do a bit of due-diligence of which places to be careful in. I've enjoyed my time traveling a lot and I've met a lot of great people.

However, one shouldn't ignore the realities of today and say everything is perfectly fine and safe. And to advocate that everyone can do a moto ride through Mexico without having to worry about crime is just as bad as the media which exaggerates violence. The fact of the matter is, certain provinces (areas of Mexico) are currently unsafe because cartels are battling over territory and should not be attempted unless you are with locals or with a group. Hopefully things will eventually settle down and it will be safe in the future - usually when one cartel kills off the members of the other. But to go through a territory at night which had enough problems to have "military escorts" points to the logical conclusion that it was not a safe area to be in. If he stuck to main highways and travelled during the day, he wouldn't have had any issues.

Since certain provinces are embroiled in cartel warfare (mainly border towns, states along smuggling routes, and areas near where Harry disappeared), it is more important than ever to learn about these dangers before-hand (even with media) vs. pretending everything is fine, until a fellow rider just disappears. While the media may exaggerate things, statistics don't lie (and once law/order breaks down, crime is often underreported).
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:42 AM   #233
Blind Warrior
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post
The average American is so poorly informed about Mexico it is a crime and a damn shame.
No, it is not their fault. So called news agencies like CNN, AP, MSNBC, etc...
are doing a great job spreading nonsense and the US state department takes it up another notch.
I feel sorry for you guys. Your own government is dling their best to keep you from knowing and understanding a tremendous cultural entity right next door.
It's the 21st century, the world is a smaller place, a traveler is missing, no evidence exists for anything and nobody gives a damn if some retired old fart is scared to look out his window in some ex-pat community. That is as ridiculous as the rescue dog plan.
CNN, et al make money by selling advertising. For that they need viewership. Viewers like sensationalism. You can see where this is going... the US public gets the reporting it craves.

It is a damn shame that the US does not feel closer to its neighbor on the south end of the continent. It will probably take at least one generation to change the US attitude towards Mexico. Maybe the Reconquista will effect that.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:50 AM   #234
SchizzMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlandRider33 View Post
Mexico is a huge country and I've been there at least a half-dozen times. The Yucatan area and Baja areas are very....
As we have other threads for this content I'll keep it brief.

I agree with the gist of this post but traveling with locals provides no guarantee of safety - potentially quite the opposite - as many criminals may let a foreigner pass, preferring to target locals. Major roads are generally kept secure but when a region becomes this unstable the government may shut them down as they have done in Michoacán.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:17 PM   #235
rockydrxrvr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post
Give it a rest.
You know zero about the current situation here.
You know next to nothing about cartels.
In fact, only a handful of people on this thread have any current and useful knowledge fron within Mexico. You know zero about Mexican youth.
One missing American under strange circumstances and a pile of gringos collectively crap themselves in fear of coming to Mexico, yet a kid murders children in cold blood in a school in the USA and you dont see Mexicans cancelling trips to Disneyland.
They have taken the effort to learn about their neighbors, try doing the same.
Maybe if the US president didnt have an agency reading the emails of the Mexican president, that president might cooperate a little.
Americans love to come here after breaking laws at home, Americans have come here looking to disappear, makes things tough for those who actually need to be found.
If you believe Mexico is too dangerous for you to be here just stay home. Dont go trying to appear you know anything about Mexico unless you live here and ride here or at least have covered serious miles over many years. If not, you are just another tourist.
My, such anger,--- OK, I will admit I don't know as much as you living there, but returning from a 3600 miles ride on both sides of the Sea of Cortez, I have a fair taste of life down there.
We still have freedom of speech up north, so I will say my opinion.
You then apparently know zero of growing sentiment of Americans who in the majority will not go to mainland MX. But show such anger if it is brought up.
Hey, what do I know, worked on an MX Orphanage for free for weeks, have a signed document from Malcolm Smith in thanks, picked up BMW and KLR'S off fellow riders in the desert close to Scorpion Bay, camped in the cactus and dust when out of light, rode alone on the east side in hail storms coming up hill to Mike's S.R.,Halloween celebrations on the mainland--- yeh, just another tourist.
OK I'LL just be staying home (Baja Excluded) from the mainland. Working and conversing in a 3000 person corporation, I am just telling it like it is. When we talk about travels, Mexico is nixed off of all plans. That's the way it is.
You don't have to be so derogatory in your replies, and if what I say is so bad, the moderator is free to block me.

rockydrxrvr screwed with this post 02-19-2014 at 12:29 PM
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:01 PM   #236
Turkeycreek
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MikeMike makes excellent points. I too am an expat living, working and riding in central Sonora.

But this thread is about Harry and finding him. Everything else is distraction. Just my dos pesos
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:05 PM   #237
SchizzMan
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+1

Ignorance & fear-mongering have no place here.

Keep praying for Harry.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:12 PM   #238
MikeMike
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TC is correct.
I could give a damn if some tourist has a letter signed by Malcolm Smith.
I've got a hat from Charlie Boorman, does that make me Ewan fckn Mcgregor?
Malcolm Smith is another older Canadian you should be listening to more carefully.

I honestly hope this Harry guy can be found, or show up somewhere and the whole thing can be a teaching moment for a nation. If he did it to himself, his mother will take care of things. Kidnap victims are rescued from time to time here and kidnapping rings are broken up. I just hope some answers come soon before 3,000 employees in some place in Oregon miss out on a great experience because someone with a letter is telling them all to stay home!
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:20 PM   #239
GuateRider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMike View Post
TC is correct.
I could give a damn if some tourist has a letter signed by Malcolm Smith.
I've got a hat from Charlie Boorman, does that make me Ewan fckn Mcgregor?
Malcolm Smith is another older Canadian you should be listening to more carefully.

I honestly hope this Harry guy can be found, or show up somewhere and the whole thing can be a teaching moment for a nation. If he did it to himself, his mother will take care of things. Kidnap victims are rescued from time to time here and kidnapping rings are broken up. I just hope some answers come soon before 3,000 employees in some place in Oregon miss out on a great experience because someone with a letter is telling them all to stay home!

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Old 02-19-2014, 01:24 PM   #240
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Who is Malcolm Smith ?
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