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Old 02-19-2014, 02:55 PM   #241
bananaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeycreek View Post
MikeMike makes excellent points. I too am an expat living, working and riding in central Sonora.

But this thread is about Harry and finding him. Everything else is distraction. Just my dos pesos
I seriously doubt that our distraction has anything to do with finding Harry.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:04 PM   #242
MKJ
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Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
I seriously doubt that our distraction has anything to do with finding Harry.
We all acknowledge your expertise. Now, check the ego and walk away. Thank you for your input.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:07 PM   #243
OverlandRider33
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Ok, how do you suggest that we stay safe when visiting or traversing foreign countries, as we all can't live in a country for 2 decades and be local experts?

Most people who visit this site have a high tolerance for risk (given that we are riders) and are pretty hardy individuals. But during my trip prep, I honestly didn't put much thought to the risk of being kidnapped on my journey. Changes happen all the time, and places which were safe before become unsafe and vice versa.

I came across this chart mapping the violence in that area and it opened up my eyes on which places are safe, and which aren't:
http://bit.ly/1mff1vy

Reading the descriptions, many of the victims seem to be innocents, such as street sweepers, store owners, taxi drivers or tourists. I used to think that as long as you mind your own business, then you won't have a problem. But it seems cartels aren't happy to sell drugs anymore, and they are moving into kidnapping/extortion, and if random bikers (foreigners + locals) are starting to be kidnapped with impunity, then shouldn't we be concerned?

Frankly, I'll still traverse such countries in the future, but I would like to figure out a more reliable way to avoid problem areas (and not rely on media saying things are too dangerous, or locals saying everything is rosy).
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:02 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlandRider33 View Post
But to go through a territory at night which had enough problems to have "military escorts" points to the logical conclusion that it was not a safe area to be in. If he stuck to main highways and travelled during the day, he wouldn't have had any issues.
There have been several posts referencing Devert travelling at night. His last text was in the middle of the afternoon, and was the last communication from him, as far as I know. Is there some info about him riding at night that I missed?

Also afaik, his route is unknown, so he may or may not have been on a main highway.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:31 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
There have been several posts referencing Devert travelling at night. His last text was in the middle of the afternoon, and was the last communication from him, as far as I know. Is there some info about him riding at night that I missed?

Also afaik, his route is unknown, so he may or may not have been on a main highway.
That's how I read it, too.
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Old 02-19-2014, 05:10 PM   #246
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Harry's Mother now believes he is being held captive by someone according to this new article in People magazine -->

http://www.people.com/people/article...788676,00.html
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Old 02-19-2014, 05:17 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlandRider33 View Post

However, one shouldn't ignore the realities of today and say everything is perfectly fine and safe... But to go through a territory at night which had enough problems to have "military escorts" points to the logical conclusion that it was not a safe area to be in. If he stuck to main highways and travelled during the day, he wouldn't have had any issues.

Since certain provinces are embroiled in cartel warfare (mainly border towns, states along smuggling routes, and areas near where Harry disappeared), it is more important than ever to learn about these dangers before-hand (even with media) vs. pretending everything is fine, until a fellow rider just disappears. While the media may exaggerate things, statistics don't lie (and once law/order breaks down, crime is often underreported).
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
There have been several posts referencing Devert travelling at night. His last text was in the middle of the afternoon, and was the last communication from him, as far as I know. Is there some info about him riding at night that I missed?

Also afaik, his route is unknown, so he may or may not have been on a main highway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizzMan View Post
That's how I read it, too.
It would be dark about 2 1/2 hours from the time his text was sent and the fastest routes to his destination would be about 5 or 6 hours on the KLR. From his FB page it didn't look like he was on a trail exploration or even dirt road exploration. All three probable routes from the monarch butterfly conservation to Zihuatanejo are pretty much main highways that can be ridden day or night conservatively. I usually kill the headlight at night and tuck in behind a bus or convoy of trucks if I'm worried about large animals or being jacked-up. Sometimes the retreads or road debris will give you a wake up call!

Still can't believe there's no real news yet!~ The lack of real news sure has this forum riled up. Probably just because we all know the risks and some of us have been in bad situations on our own adventures.
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:32 PM   #248
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So, to recap, no one has seen Harry since he dropped out of contact in January.

A question for those familiar with these things, How long do these hostage/ransom deals usually take?

I would think that a month would be a long time to keep a prisoner/hostage.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:20 PM   #249
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There are only two actual ways of finding him... People on the ground actually looking, and the proper contacts who have contacts with anyone that would have harmed him.

There are a finite number of possibilities here. I see them as Crashed, kidnapped/murdered, or intentionally lost. So either go down there and find him or pay the right people to do it.

As far as the Mexico safety debate everyone should just stfu... Not the point of this thread.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:59 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopulga View Post
Probably do [have better things to do] but in my logic it did not hurt for me to press a button to show - at least the family or the one that got this started that I feel compelled to their cause, whatever the situation might be. I also would like to think that someone at some level watches petitions and, who knows - someone might do something about it while making 'deals.' Power of positive thinking helps us on the road, when we get into accidents and when we pull for other fellow-man.

Get better soon.
In the whole wide world there are much bigger problems and opportunities for a couple of the most powerful men in the world than the whereabouts of one errant motorcycle rider. Certainly if I ever went missing like this I'd be super embarrassed if anybody went to this much trouble. When you go off on a lark, the moment you swing your leg over, you're taking full responsibility for all of your actions. Nobody is liable for any injury or hardship, including your death. (You've basically agreed to the same terms and conditions as what's printed on a ski lift ticket, or even what you sign just to do yoga. For me? At this point I'm entertained. As for Harry... wait a second. While all of you are beating your chests and shit, I wonder, how many if you have been kidnapped? How many of you have read Ozy's ride report?

PS: Mikemike knows his shit. I've enjoyed his input for years. He's usually right. But Lone Rider is dryer.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:20 PM   #251
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Alright I pruned the politically charged/contentious content and ask you to take your debate to another forum. The OP is about a missing rider, everyone has opinions about the climate in Mexico, you're not going to debate it here.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:12 AM   #252
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To get back on topic (and be of use to finding Harry for his family), Could a few other riders do the same exercise I did? Basically you can find his possible route / routes via. the Facebook page linked on the first page.

Then go to Google Maps and click on Street view, and try going through sections of the route for possible areas he might have crashed / embankment. One theory could be that the convoy he was with was too slow. Then he went ahead and maybe took a turn too fast etc...

I'm curious if others will reach the same conclusion that I did: which after studying the terrain, I found that the roads don't seem that bad. (Note: he could have been riding when it was dark). If a few people do this exercise and point out areas to investigate, then it could aid fellow searchers in the field (since they don't have the experience of other motorcyclists).
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Old 02-20-2014, 07:28 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
In the whole wide world there are much bigger problems and opportunities for a couple of the most powerful men in the world than the whereabouts of one errant motorcycle rider. Certainly if I ever went missing like this I'd be super embarrassed if anybody went to this much trouble. When you go off on a lark, the moment you swing your leg over, you're taking full responsibility for all of your actions. Nobody is liable for any injury or hardship, including your death. (You've basically agreed to the same terms and conditions as what's printed on a ski lift ticket, or even what you sign just to do yoga. For me? At this point I'm entertained. As for Harry... wait a second. While all of you are beating your chests and shit, I wonder, how many if you have been kidnapped? How many of you have read Ozy's ride report?

PS: Mikemike knows his shit. I've enjoyed his input for years. He's usually right. But Lone Rider is dryer.
+1 For me, and for you I am sure, this is not really about Harry per se. It is about his mother and family who are in real pain right now. Finding Harry, one way or another, would help mitigate that pain.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:43 AM   #254
bananaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlandRider33 View Post
Ok, how do you suggest that we stay safe when visiting or traversing foreign countries, as we all can't live in a country for 2 decades and be local experts?

Most people who visit this site have a high tolerance for risk (given that we are riders) and are pretty hardy individuals. But during my trip prep, I honestly didn't put much thought to the risk of being kidnapped on my journey. Changes happen all the time, and places which were safe before become unsafe and vice versa.

I came across this chart mapping the violence in that area and it opened up my eyes on which places are safe, and which aren't:
http://bit.ly/1mff1vy

Reading the descriptions, many of the victims seem to be innocents, such as street sweepers, store owners, taxi drivers or tourists. I used to think that as long as you mind your own business, then you won't have a problem. But it seems cartels aren't happy to sell drugs anymore, and they are moving into kidnapping/extortion, and if random bikers (foreigners + locals) are starting to be kidnapped with impunity, then shouldn't we be concerned?

Frankly, I'll still traverse such countries in the future, but I would like to figure out a more reliable way to avoid problem areas (and not rely on media saying things are too dangerous, or locals saying everything is rosy).
The Striking Viking's ride report is required reading. He was kidnapped in Colombia.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:38 PM   #255
bananaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testrider View Post
Where is Ozy's ride report? Thanks.
At the top of this forum, there'a thread called "Ride Report Link Thread."

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317793

Scroll down (or read) the first post, and you'll find links to what the collective asylum once considered the best ride reports. I'll copy the post here, with a few edits:

Now that Latin America is its own place... (In the olden days, the world was divided in such a way that there was one section, "Outer Darkness." It included everything that wasn't in the United States. One day, after vigorous but largely ignored debate, Outer Darkness got split into sections. Latin America was created. Hence, Mods are Gods, separated only by letters H-L).

Please keep your comments to a minimum. Any bitching and moaning will be completely ignored, or else maybe it'll be directed elsewhere, or something, according to whatever Nata Harli, Lone Rider, and/or Albert the Turtles Head say. GS Diablo, either of the Seguin Bros, and Throttlemeister are equally to blame.

You absolutely have to read Seattle to Argentina on a KLR650, 5/7/2006, by OZYMANDIAS. His e-book is here: www.2arms1head.com; ... Charlotte to Canada to South America, by Funklab, is another must-read, but with a not-quite-as-sad-ending.

The best trip prep info you can buy is a DVD by Dr. Benny. Get it here:
http://www.motorcyclemexico.com/2011...ycle+Mexico%29

On account of the total insanity of Cruthas, I'm putting his crossing of the Darien right after Ozy's. This is a MUST READ. The good stuff starts on page 7. The thread started out as a question, "Shipping bike from Panama to Colombia" CAUTION: DO NOT READ THIS IF YOU WORRY ABOUT STUFF. Cruthas lists his sailboat research here, and a few of us have chimed in with misc. info.: A list of sailboats and captians from Panama to Colombia

Most of Latin America is pretty safe, but... Avoid the dirt road from Santiago Atilan to San Pedro in Guatemala

Chickens hogs and other road hazards, by Boyscout. This should be included in any MSF course on Latin America.

Dr. Benny's new site, www.motorcyclemexico.com, is going to have a "how to ride Mexico" movie. This also should be included in any MSF course on Latin America.

How far is it from the US/Mexico border to Ushuaia? There's a little discussion here. Hopefully it helps your planning, because 15,000ish miles is hard to wrap your head around. Just Butt-Time

The Most Fun Way To Cross The Darien Gap: http://www.newfrontiersadventures.com/MC/CentralAm.html, by our very own C5!

How to cross into Honduras, by Luciosiq- this is a link to the page: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...&postcount=129. Read the whole ride report here: 2 UP FROM 5 TO 9- from New York to Brazil. Here's a video of them getting interviewed once they made it to Brazil. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPo-2CpTAP0

How to get into Bolivia is so damn confusing, and fascinating, that I'm adding this post from JediMaster. He has a blog: http://shortwayround.co.uk/. How to get out is even more confusing. Here's how Crashmaster did it: Bolivia: Uyuni - Laguna Verde, exit question. Don't read this if you get vertigo or are afraid of sand. An oxygen pack is suggested unless you're used to riding at 16,500 feet.

"Chasing Summer," by Jean-Luc. Epic 2007-2008 trip from way up north to way down south.

Machu Pichu, the alternate route, by Boyscout. Nobody is supposed to be able to ride to Machu Pichu (or Aguas Calientes), you're only supposed to be able to ride to Cuscu, and from there you're supposed to walk for 4 days, or take an expensive train. Nobody except Boyscout. (Brian and Marie also did it, and they were two-up! Mere mortals can't.)

Most riders take the Lima/Nazca/Cuzco route to Machu Picchu. Crashmaster has a better way, outlined here: Peru Route Question


South America Top 10 Rides, by Mickycito. Mickycito is the owner/operator of www.compassexpeditions.com. His "South America Top 10 Rides" is a must-read. Have a napkin ready because you're going to drool some more.

Martincito very awesomely posted this: Uyuni, Laguna Colorada and Verde. Mini Report for those who don't know, this is in Bolivia, and it deals with the salt flats and lakes. This is an extremely remote area. You probably shouldn't even read this if you're not an expert, or else you're going to have serious anxiety attacks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nata Harli
Brazilian couple Lucio and Paula, residents of New York City, decided to take a break and visit their relatives back in Brazil.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nata Harli
bgoodsoil rides from Georgia through Central America. Lonely Planet's "Central America on a Shoestring" is his guide.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nata Harli
South America: Until our Luck or Money Runs Out

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377792

Thornado has a good one going: Southern Exposure: Seattle to Argentina, a guy and a girl, each on a KLR of their own.

I can barely add Hi-Jay's Patagonia-Bound, about two Michiganers (Go Wisconsin!) riding fancy brand-new matching shiny fully-kitted BMW R1200GS motorbikes from Michigan USA to Patagonia-where?
Finding PANAMA, by Jeff Munn, from January 2006. Also in the Hall of Fame.
Here's another good one from Gpothaven. "Americas - All the way up, all the way down... "

Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman
http://sp4ce.com/ is Nina's and sp4ce's blog. 2up to TDF (San Fransisco to Ushuaia) is their ride report. As of today, they're stranded by floods on the atlantic side of Panama, near the Costa Rica border.
- this quote is from 11/26/08. Read on, try not to drool over the photos. I think Nina is the best photographer on advrider.

[quote=AndyT]Cheesehead rides from Texas to Tierra del Fuego - '06-'07

Calrider, all over Colombia: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301156 [/quote]

"SS in Vzla." has a nice one going: "A dozen drops in the Venezuelan Andes." No wild condor shots, but otherwise pretty good.
Two up - Going down +1: South America Bound, 8/21/2007, by BriKielyGSman

Nata Harli's Journey - Panama to the US, 1/18/2008, by Nata Harli

A Journey For Healthcare: 21 countries, 60,000 KM and 11 months on the road, 8/13/2006, by Salcar

Dave & Pam's Excellent Adventure To Ushuaia, 2/15/2008, by robocop1

GatoGato's Ride from Iowa to South America, 1/1/2008, by GatoGato

A dozen drops in the Venezuelan Andes." 4/29/2008 by SS in Vzla.

2up to India via Tierra del Fuego, 4/20/2008, by 2uprtw

Another one from Lone Rider: Lower Latitudes - Better Attitudes. Started January 8, 2007.
"Excited about taking another large dose would be an understatement. Don’t just fix me, drown me, please, Senor. Weird is cool."

Aussie Gringohas this one: Southern Comfort, started December 2006.
"...At roughly 5 pm and a mere 60 miles from Ushuaia, I was too cold to continue riding...l"

South American Adventure - 2 up on a R100GS, by Flyingavanti, with amazing then-and-now photos.

SF to Panama... eventually, by Stickfigure, including a "rescue" from the Darien Jungle by Panama army-cops who didn't think Gringos should be quite so close to Colombia.

Around the World in My Bug, by Ross- actually driving a '71 Beetle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nata Harli
Here´s a link to a ride report not on AdvRider. But, Thierry, from Switzerland, is on the first month of a 5 year ride around the world. http://www.worldbiker.ch
Buenos Aires to Quito (via Brazil, Venezuela, and Colombia), by AdventureGoddess, March 2008

Nicaragua: Riding into the unknown, by Salcar, April 2008

Los Angeles to Buenos Aires

If you want to know what it's like to ride through Hurricane Alma, read this: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343871

"Texas to Tierra del Fuego," by daveg, including his robbery in Guatemala, "Avoid the dirt road from Santiago Atilan to San Pedro in Guatemala."

"ride reports sent me to Costa Rica," by Coug66. A group of buddies and brothers rent from www.wild-rider.com, inspired by Finger Mullet's Working Man's Costa Rica Ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockiesTwin
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410657
Shameless self propeganda! But isn´t this the American way???
ahoraquemister is riding from Bogota to Buenos Aires,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
I'm adding a report of a trip we did in November 2008 here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423206. Up to Punta Arenas so far. Will complete over the next few days. Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nata Harli
A couple of down-unders try to conquer South America. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nata Harli
Annette rides solo from Alaska to Argentina. http://www.alaska2argentina.co.uk/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nata Harli
I discovered it while reading about riding 2 up on a China bike in Colombia.

http://evil-adams-epic-adventures.com/
Ken
Side-car-ing? mikepa has Hacking My Way to Tierra del Fuego & Ushuaia hidden in "Hacks."

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwagonrider
Here is the link to our blog on Blogspot Jen and and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance Here is the link to our ride report on Ride Reports and pics.pics.pics Jen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
c5 suggests Teddy's La Gran Sabana. Venezualans riding in Venezuela!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nata Harli
SunnySideUp and, ocassionally, some companions tackle South America and, if all goes according to plan Central America and North America. Just depends on whose bike is running at the time.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435562
French Guiana, Suriname, Guyana, by Markharf

Nobody ever goes there, but he did.
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