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Old 02-19-2014, 01:27 PM   #241
SchizzMan
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SchizzMan screwed with this post 02-19-2014 at 02:04 PM
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:55 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeycreek View Post
MikeMike makes excellent points. I too am an expat living, working and riding in central Sonora.

But this thread is about Harry and finding him. Everything else is distraction. Just my dos pesos
I seriously doubt that our distraction has anything to do with finding Harry.
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:04 PM   #243
MKJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
I seriously doubt that our distraction has anything to do with finding Harry.
We all acknowledge your expertise. Now, check the ego and walk away. Thank you for your input.
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:07 PM   #244
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Ok, how do you suggest that we stay safe when visiting or traversing foreign countries, as we all can't live in a country for 2 decades and be local experts?

Most people who visit this site have a high tolerance for risk (given that we are riders) and are pretty hardy individuals. But during my trip prep, I honestly didn't put much thought to the risk of being kidnapped on my journey. Changes happen all the time, and places which were safe before become unsafe and vice versa.

I came across this chart mapping the violence in that area and it opened up my eyes on which places are safe, and which aren't:
http://bit.ly/1mff1vy

Reading the descriptions, many of the victims seem to be innocents, such as street sweepers, store owners, taxi drivers or tourists. I used to think that as long as you mind your own business, then you won't have a problem. But it seems cartels aren't happy to sell drugs anymore, and they are moving into kidnapping/extortion, and if random bikers (foreigners + locals) are starting to be kidnapped with impunity, then shouldn't we be concerned?

Frankly, I'll still traverse such countries in the future, but I would like to figure out a more reliable way to avoid problem areas (and not rely on media saying things are too dangerous, or locals saying everything is rosy).
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:02 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlandRider33 View Post
But to go through a territory at night which had enough problems to have "military escorts" points to the logical conclusion that it was not a safe area to be in. If he stuck to main highways and travelled during the day, he wouldn't have had any issues.
There have been several posts referencing Devert travelling at night. His last text was in the middle of the afternoon, and was the last communication from him, as far as I know. Is there some info about him riding at night that I missed?

Also afaik, his route is unknown, so he may or may not have been on a main highway.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:31 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
There have been several posts referencing Devert travelling at night. His last text was in the middle of the afternoon, and was the last communication from him, as far as I know. Is there some info about him riding at night that I missed?

Also afaik, his route is unknown, so he may or may not have been on a main highway.
That's how I read it, too.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:10 PM   #247
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Harry's Mother now believes he is being held captive by someone according to this new article in People magazine -->

http://www.people.com/people/article...788676,00.html
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:17 PM   #248
Klutch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlandRider33 View Post

However, one shouldn't ignore the realities of today and say everything is perfectly fine and safe... But to go through a territory at night which had enough problems to have "military escorts" points to the logical conclusion that it was not a safe area to be in. If he stuck to main highways and travelled during the day, he wouldn't have had any issues.

Since certain provinces are embroiled in cartel warfare (mainly border towns, states along smuggling routes, and areas near where Harry disappeared), it is more important than ever to learn about these dangers before-hand (even with media) vs. pretending everything is fine, until a fellow rider just disappears. While the media may exaggerate things, statistics don't lie (and once law/order breaks down, crime is often underreported).
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
There have been several posts referencing Devert travelling at night. His last text was in the middle of the afternoon, and was the last communication from him, as far as I know. Is there some info about him riding at night that I missed?

Also afaik, his route is unknown, so he may or may not have been on a main highway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizzMan View Post
That's how I read it, too.
It would be dark about 2 1/2 hours from the time his text was sent and the fastest routes to his destination would be about 5 or 6 hours on the KLR. From his FB page it didn't look like he was on a trail exploration or even dirt road exploration. All three probable routes from the monarch butterfly conservation to Zihuatanejo are pretty much main highways that can be ridden day or night conservatively. I usually kill the headlight at night and tuck in behind a bus or convoy of trucks if I'm worried about large animals or being jacked-up. Sometimes the retreads or road debris will give you a wake up call!

Still can't believe there's no real news yet!~ The lack of real news sure has this forum riled up. Probably just because we all know the risks and some of us have been in bad situations on our own adventures.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:32 PM   #249
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So, to recap, no one has seen Harry since he dropped out of contact in January.

A question for those familiar with these things, How long do these hostage/ransom deals usually take?

I would think that a month would be a long time to keep a prisoner/hostage.
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:20 PM   #250
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There are only two actual ways of finding him... People on the ground actually looking, and the proper contacts who have contacts with anyone that would have harmed him.

There are a finite number of possibilities here. I see them as Crashed, kidnapped/murdered, or intentionally lost. So either go down there and find him or pay the right people to do it.

As far as the Mexico safety debate everyone should just stfu... Not the point of this thread.
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:59 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by mopulga View Post
Probably do [have better things to do] but in my logic it did not hurt for me to press a button to show - at least the family or the one that got this started that I feel compelled to their cause, whatever the situation might be. I also would like to think that someone at some level watches petitions and, who knows - someone might do something about it while making 'deals.' Power of positive thinking helps us on the road, when we get into accidents and when we pull for other fellow-man.

Get better soon.
In the whole wide world there are much bigger problems and opportunities for a couple of the most powerful men in the world than the whereabouts of one errant motorcycle rider. Certainly if I ever went missing like this I'd be super embarrassed if anybody went to this much trouble. When you go off on a lark, the moment you swing your leg over, you're taking full responsibility for all of your actions. Nobody is liable for any injury or hardship, including your death. (You've basically agreed to the same terms and conditions as what's printed on a ski lift ticket, or even what you sign just to do yoga. For me? At this point I'm entertained. As for Harry... wait a second. While all of you are beating your chests and shit, I wonder, how many if you have been kidnapped? How many of you have read Ozy's ride report?

PS: Mikemike knows his shit. I've enjoyed his input for years. He's usually right. But Lone Rider is dryer.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:20 PM   #252
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Alright I pruned the politically charged/contentious content and ask you to take your debate to another forum. The OP is about a missing rider, everyone has opinions about the climate in Mexico, you're not going to debate it here.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:12 PM   #253
OverlandRider33
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To get back on topic (and be of use to finding Harry for his family), Could a few other riders do the same exercise I did? Basically you can find his possible route / routes via. the Facebook page linked on the first page.

Then go to Google Maps and click on Street view, and try going through sections of the route for possible areas he might have crashed / embankment. One theory could be that the convoy he was with was too slow. Then he went ahead and maybe took a turn too fast etc...

I'm curious if others will reach the same conclusion that I did: which after studying the terrain, I found that the roads don't seem that bad. (Note: he could have been riding when it was dark). If a few people do this exercise and point out areas to investigate, then it could aid fellow searchers in the field (since they don't have the experience of other motorcyclists).
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Old 02-20-2014, 06:28 AM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
In the whole wide world there are much bigger problems and opportunities for a couple of the most powerful men in the world than the whereabouts of one errant motorcycle rider. Certainly if I ever went missing like this I'd be super embarrassed if anybody went to this much trouble. When you go off on a lark, the moment you swing your leg over, you're taking full responsibility for all of your actions. Nobody is liable for any injury or hardship, including your death. (You've basically agreed to the same terms and conditions as what's printed on a ski lift ticket, or even what you sign just to do yoga. For me? At this point I'm entertained. As for Harry... wait a second. While all of you are beating your chests and shit, I wonder, how many if you have been kidnapped? How many of you have read Ozy's ride report?

PS: Mikemike knows his shit. I've enjoyed his input for years. He's usually right. But Lone Rider is dryer.
+1 For me, and for you I am sure, this is not really about Harry per se. It is about his mother and family who are in real pain right now. Finding Harry, one way or another, would help mitigate that pain.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:43 AM   #255
bananaman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverlandRider33 View Post
Ok, how do you suggest that we stay safe when visiting or traversing foreign countries, as we all can't live in a country for 2 decades and be local experts?

Most people who visit this site have a high tolerance for risk (given that we are riders) and are pretty hardy individuals. But during my trip prep, I honestly didn't put much thought to the risk of being kidnapped on my journey. Changes happen all the time, and places which were safe before become unsafe and vice versa.

I came across this chart mapping the violence in that area and it opened up my eyes on which places are safe, and which aren't:
http://bit.ly/1mff1vy

Reading the descriptions, many of the victims seem to be innocents, such as street sweepers, store owners, taxi drivers or tourists. I used to think that as long as you mind your own business, then you won't have a problem. But it seems cartels aren't happy to sell drugs anymore, and they are moving into kidnapping/extortion, and if random bikers (foreigners + locals) are starting to be kidnapped with impunity, then shouldn't we be concerned?

Frankly, I'll still traverse such countries in the future, but I would like to figure out a more reliable way to avoid problem areas (and not rely on media saying things are too dangerous, or locals saying everything is rosy).
The Striking Viking's ride report is required reading. He was kidnapped in Colombia.
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