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Old 02-13-2014, 08:31 PM   #61
DAKEZ
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Originally Posted by manfromthestix View Post
I have never had this happen on the three bikes I've had with ABS. I think your brakes are fucked up somehow. I ride hard on all manner of surfaces and have never once experienced this kind of thing.

Doug
Rough surfaces and small amounts of road contaminants can trick many ABS systems.

I have had what he describes happen on three different bikes.

The bottom line is all riders really should apply themselves and learn how to ride and brake properly... If they do not they really are making something that should be a fun and engaging activity into an unnecessarily risky endeavor.
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:12 PM   #62
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ABS might be the finest piece of technology in the known universe but I don't want it.



Secondarily is the argument that it frequently fails. Ignoring your only argument that it stops you slightly better in some conditions is the very reasonable negative perspective that more often it kills the brakes altogether.
Well that first sentence actually tells everything about your point of view. You just don΄t want it, period. And that΄s fine, we all have a freedom of choice. You will soon have trouble to find a new bike without ABS, but if you keep riding something 20-30 yrs old, then that΄s not really a problem for a long time.

About frequently failing, well here΄s my version: got my first ABS bike in early 2007, and after that I΄ve always had it on my bikes, so for seven seasons now. Or should probably count that 8, because that first ABS bike of mine was my choice for a transcontinental trip, that took place in our wintertime, so it was in continuous use for about 1,5 years, and clocked 50.000kms during its first year. But anyway, I΄m still waiting for that FIRST time, when I will get ANY sort of ABS malfunction on a bike. Currently I probably have somewhere around 150.000kms on my ABS bikes combined, and efficient braking has been available every single time, when the situation has called for that. What will be the possibility, that I will get my first ever ABS malfunction at exactly that moment, when I would really need that system? I don΄t know the answer to that, but a major prize in a lottery does seem a lot more probable. Or a meteor landing on my head while riding, for that matter. But there are just my experiences and thoughts, and (as always), YMM(and apparently does)V(a lot).
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:48 PM   #63
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Heavy braking should not even be an option

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Well that first sentence actually tells everything about your point of view. You just don΄t want it, period. And that΄s fine, we all have a freedom of choice. You will soon have trouble to find a new bike without ABS, but if you keep riding something 20-30 yrs old, then that΄s not really a problem for a long time.

About frequently failing, well here΄s my version: got my first ABS bike in early 2007, and after that I΄ve always had it on my bikes, so for seven seasons now. Or should probably count that 8, because that first ABS bike of mine was my choice for a transcontinental trip, that took place in our wintertime, so it was in continuous use for about 1,5 years, and clocked 50.000kms during its first year. But anyway, I΄m still waiting for that FIRST time, when I will get ANY sort of ABS malfunction on a bike. Currently I probably have somewhere around 150.000kms on my ABS bikes combined, and efficient braking has been available every single time, when the situation has called for that. What will be the possibility, that I will get my first ever ABS malfunction at exactly that moment, when I would really need that system? I don΄t know the answer to that, but a major prize in a lottery does seem a lot more probable. Or a meteor landing on my head while riding, for that matter. But there are just my experiences and thoughts, and (as always), YMM(and apparently does)V(a lot).
I am approaching 10 years and 150,000 km, on heavily used roads that are generally poorly engineered and maintained, with some steep hills…. typical partially developed nation stuff….. on a 17 year-old bike with cable operated drums front and rear.

Traffic is crazy, but I cannot remember the last time I needed to do any kind of emergency braking, not that my bike would have much to offer. I have had neither an accident nor a ticket in that time, nor in the several other countries that I have ridden in since my last off on the road in 1976 (and braking didn't come into that).

I ride to the conditions, remain aware of what is going on around me, and believe me here there is always plenty. In a crisis, fixing a target in my gaze and slamming on ABS brakes is (thankfully perhaps) not an option. In traffic here, emergency swerving or braking is likely to add to the chaos rather than salvage a situation.

Being aware of options and taking the most appropriate is a better way to go.

Alphabet soup or not, rely on your own common sense, not sensors
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Aj Mick screwed with this post 02-14-2014 at 02:16 AM
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:43 AM   #64
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Aj Mick, I agree completly.

First you should use your brain, when riding, then concider about braking.

Until now, I did 30 years of riding, with more than 150.000 km and I never missed an ABS on my bikes and scooters.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:28 AM   #65
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Until now, I did 30 years of riding, with more than 150.000 km and I never missed an ABS on my bikes and scooters.
Ok. but there is still absolutely no guarantee, that you will not need your brakes and all your braking abilities and everything else from your skill set, the next time you set off on your bike.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:31 AM   #66
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.... but there is absolutely no guarantee, that ABS will solve the problem.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:40 AM   #67
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No, it does not solve problems, that one you still need to DIY (as well as stay out of trouble in the first place).

It's just a small technical help for an "oh shit"-moment, that can happen, no matter how advanced our situational awareness is.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:51 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
It's just a small technical help for an "oh shit"-moment, that can happen, no matter how advanced our situational awareness is.
That is a point, I can agree, but not an important reason for me, to change my current bike and scooters.

As always, an element of risk remains.
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:32 AM   #69
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The bottom line is all riders really should apply themselves and learn how to ride and brake properly...

This has been my point all along. No technology is going to save your ass if you don't know how to ride safely; conversely, the technology isn't going to harm you either if you know how to ride safely. The ABS is supposed to work in the background as an added safety measure, not fire in every braking use. Turn it off, learn to ride without it, then turn it back on and forget it's there unless you have an emergency situation.

The OP asked if there was anything he should be looking out for because he's buying a bike with ABS and he has no experience with it. All this talk of personal choice/preference, manufacturers stuffing shit you don't need down your throat, ABS systems sometimes not working under various situations, blah blah blah didn't answer his question. My guess is that you won't even know it's there 99% of the time if you learn to ride the bike and use the brakes properly.

And with that, I quit .

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Old 02-14-2014, 08:42 AM   #70
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Get used to turning it off! ABS is a triumph of marketing over common sense. I've had it three bikes, it's as dangerous as bolting knives to your dashboard. On the first, a BMW R1200gs it kicked off on road and the brakes failed and I overshot the line by a few meters, enough to mean I had to swerve to avoid an oncoming car. Second, BMW F800gs, the brakes kept skipping every time I went over a bump, I nearly stacked it a number of times. It seems to work fine on my little BMW 650 but I switch it off routinely.
On my friend's KTM Adventure it failed in Bulgaria where the roads are very smooth. He overshot the stop and rode into the middle of three lanes of oncoming traffic. He was very nearly killed.
Just learn to ride and pull the fuse.
So you have experience of multiple ABS "failures" that resulted in having no (or less) brakes than you would have had without ABS. You are a statistical freak. Go buy a lottery ticket.
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:56 AM   #71
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So you have experience of multiple ABS "failures" that resulted in having no (or less) brakes than you would have had without ABS. You are a statistical freak. Go buy a lottery ticket.
No he's actually not a freak. It happens quite often. So often it's in the owner's manual.

It's not a failure, it's just how the ABS works. Sometimes wonderfully, almost as good as ABS on a car. Sometimes not very well at all.
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:58 AM   #72
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I'll be riding with ABS brakes for the first time this spring (DL650). Is there anything I should be watching out for or practicing when I start?



Long and short of it is this....

Look at the majority of riders complaining about ABS. They ride BMW's. There isn't much BMW can't eff up when it comes to bikes.

I've had in on my Weestrom for 7 years now. Never once have I had "no brakes".

Only on gravel/muddy fire roads has it been noticeable or an interference. My favorite roads to ride are rough and twisty mountain roads. Never have the brakes released while diving into a corner while riding over rough roads.

Like a lot of things about the Weestrom, Suzuki got the ABS system right. Due to reading all the threads full of ABS deniers out there, I originally put a switch on the ABS system, and used to turn it off when I headed down gravel roads. But, now that I understand how it works, I rarely ever turn off the ABS.

When you get the bike, experiment with it a few times to see how if feels, then ride. I garuntee you that, unless you're riding offroad, you won't notice the ABS at all on the Vstrom.
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:58 AM   #73
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"Turn it off, learn to ride without it, then turn it back on and forget it's there unless you have an emergency situation."

Actually I'd say just leave it on, and practice how it works. Even though I've learnt without ABS myself, but if I'd have had this choice back in the day, I'd have used it from the go. just my 0.02.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:09 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
"Turn it off, learn to ride without it, then turn it back on and forget it's there unless you have an emergency situation."

Actually I'd say just leave it on, and practice how it works. Even though I've learnt without ABS myself, but if I'd have had this choice back in the day, I'd have used it from the go. just my 0.02.
Especially since it's much easier and safer to learn with the ABS on. You can use it as an indicator when you're overdoing the brakes without the risk to crash.

P.S.: I'm happy to have a Honda ABS, because they don't have these freaky "completely cut off the brakes for extended periods of time" moments.
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:20 AM   #75
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No he's actually not a freak. It happens quite often. So often it's in the owner's manual.

It's not a failure, it's just how the ABS works. Sometimes wonderfully, almost as good as ABS on a car. Sometimes not very well at all.
That's why I quoted "failures". However, stating that a bike ran past an intersection because of ABS failure sounds fishy to me. Seems like any time he screws up his braking he blames it on the ABS. I have BMWs ABS2 on my 1100GS. This is acknowledged as one of the most trouble-prone systems and most likely to release brakes when on gravel (if it releases on a slick manhole cover, etc., then it's functioning as intended.) However, I can honestly say that in around 50,000 miles of riding in all conditions, I have never once had the ABS cause me to not stop where I intended (on the street.)

If he said it was on gravel I'd understand.
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