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Old 02-20-2014, 10:49 AM   #31
eakins
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:11 PM   #32
KirkN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecchio Lupo View Post
KirkN, I get what you are saying. Most accidents happen very close to home and you have no control over other people.

It's risk management, not risk mitigation. You can't replace the physical protection of all the modern gear with luck. You can realize that you should back off from behind that jalopy of a roofing truck leaking hot tar with a teenage crew going to lunch. You also should know to keep your speed down and look further ahead. My reference to experience was not bike handling ability but good riding judgement. Airplanes crash, boats sink, and people in Volvos get hit by drunks, there things we have to worry about regardless of safety gear.

Just as I believe in helmets, I'll vote for your right to choose not to wear one. I agree 100% with your statement on ATGATT, I choose to manage my risk and dress accordingly, someday I may regret it, and yes I have had two real crashes and a half dozen minor mistakes in the last 40 years. I respect The individual's right and expect individuals to respect mine, or at least remain civil in disagreement.

In my above statement of "Lite Gear" that is about a third less gear than ATGATT is regular sturdy footgear and jeans rather than SiDi boots and Hien Gerricke pants. Jacket helmet and gloves, while only the 80% solution is still 80%
You and I are on the same page, don't get me wrong.

But, saying things like "you don't NEED the extra gear on a local jaunt" implies that somehow you're thinking that you'll be OK without the gear on a little local trip to the hardware store, and that's just not true.

If you're making a conscious choice to go with Lite Gear (great wording!) that day, that's fine.

Further, I'll say that choosing less gear or less "risk mitigation" on any given day is not "risk management", but "risk acceptance". Risk management would describe the overall philosophy; mitigation and/or acceptance would be two strategies within the overall concept of risk management.

In addition, when thinking of gear as a "risk mitigation" measure, it's interesting to note that paying attention and careful driving are also risk mitigation measures, but no one would say "y'know what, today I'm just not in the mood for all that risk mitigation. I think I'll daydream and wool-gather while on today's ride..." It's interesting that some mitigation measures we'll occasionally abandon, while others we won't.

Just be on your guard against wishful thinking. Always be clear-eyed about what choices you're making...

And, we really ARE on the same page. If someone chooses to go without a particular piece of gear, I fully support his right to choose. But again, guard against wishful thinking!
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:19 PM   #33
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Risk threshold.

I rode with just some capris on last summer. I was on a bike that I was considering buying. Jacket, gloves, helmet, boots, but no pants. It was fun in a way. I don't know if I was more taken aback by the wind on my legs or by the bike I was riding (1983 R65, it was dreamy), but it was surreal and I hold that memory close.

I wear my pants because I want to, and frankly, I like them. I love my astronaut suit - I call it pyjamas - it's a bit of insulation from an angry world. It's a different emotion for me.

But that day with those raspberry sherbet capris...... One more page in my little R65 storybook. One more little slice of time that I treasure for what it was.

FWIW, get a smaller GS. They are fun, too.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:17 PM   #34
Mike Yanagita
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In this context, freedom would be the ability to simply fasten my safety belt and go. In other words, I wouldn't ride a motorcycle for some illusion of freedom or adventure; I'd ride because I enjoyed it (with the understanding that riding comes with inconvenience, like safety equipment, bad weather, etc.).
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:46 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post

Jacket, gloves, helmet, boots, but no pants. It was fun in a way. I don't know if I was more taken aback by the wind on my


Hmm..... this sounds like a different discussion. Maybe better take it down to the basement...


KirkN screwed with this post 02-20-2014 at 03:06 PM
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Old 02-20-2014, 05:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm View Post
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose..." Kristofferson

Jeans, T-shirt, fatigue jacket, and jump boots... '70s riding gear.

Now, I'm all the gear, all the time. Gear got better, and I got smarter...

NFE

Hell, I rode with just a pair of shorts and a helmet back in the 70's. Even rode barefoot a lot.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:58 PM   #37
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Thanks for all the replies folks. Too many for me to respond to. Truth in all of them most definitely and really have enjoyed reading them.

No, I haven't dropped the bike.

And also, I can't really afford another bike, even a small one with the $$$ this big behemoth consumes. I'd feel guilty anyways, having a bike as nice as this and then getting another. I'd rather get something nice for some one else I guess.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:16 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaLunk View Post
My one and only experience with road rash came riding a short hop in town when I hit a huge puddle of oil or antifreeze that suddenly appeared as the car in front of me passed over it. The good news was I had my leather jacket. The bad news was that it was strapped to the seat behind me because it was too hot. That was in the 1980s.

I figure you don't get to choose your accident. If it's too hot for gear it's too hot to ride. Bless the one who started making good textile jackets. I'm not religiously ATGATT, but I try not to miss church too often.
Sounds like you were following too close, things don't just "pop" mout from under the car in front of you, if they do you are too close.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:33 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KirkN View Post
Hmm..... this sounds like a different discussion. Maybe better take it down to the basement...

Hey, I was wearing underwear AND capris there......
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:06 AM   #40
KX50002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
Hey, I was wearing underwear AND capris there......
You said "no pants" and got everyone excited

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Old 02-21-2014, 11:10 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by KX50002 View Post
Sounds like you were following too close, things don't just "pop" mout from under the car in front of you, if they do you are too close.
No arguement from me on that. It was a one way city street, traffic was being merged into a single lane for construction, and traffic was bunching up. Mostly though, I was too young and immortal at the time to feel the need to do it right. Fortunately, my illusions of immortality were dispelled by time and experience without offing myself in the process. It was 30+ years ago.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:21 AM   #42
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I ride everywhere. I have a car, but it hasn't moved since September, and probably it was 6 months before that.

The ATGATT people will probably tear me a new one, but I had to tone down the gear. It got to be too much of a chore and was taking some of the enjoyment from my riding.

I bought a few pairs of Sliders cargo pants, as I wear cargo pants everywhere because of the pockets anyhow. I wear them daily as regular pants. I have a very comfy broken in leather jacket with perferations on the inside of the arms. I swallowed the deerskin coolaide for 2 reasons, but I use deerskin gloves when I ride.

Here's what that has done for me. I already have kevlar pants on (sure they are not armored, but they are skid resistant), I wear my Redwings all the time so I already have boots on, so when it's time to go I grab the armored jacket, gloves and the flip face helmet (comes in real nice for smoke breaks) and am out the door. So much nicer than changing boots, putting on armored stiff pants that while nice on the bike suck in the store, getting coffee, etc., putting on the big armored stiff Aerostich (which I use for work and on long rides, btw) and all that crap just to go to Home Depot. I just grab the little I need, and I use a carabiner lock to lock the helmet when in the store.

Some use ATGATT, I call what I use ATRGATT, or all the REASONABLE gear all the time.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:43 PM   #43
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:26 PM   #44
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I want to put my worthless opinion here too.

I've been in several major crashes throughout my riding career, I've broken my neck, ankle, and elbow all in separate incidents. Torn ACL, torn AC, bruised lungs dislocated ribs; I've crashed in full gear, partial gear, and helmet only.

Motorcycling is dangerous and pointless, so its about risk management. Is the risk of death / brain damage worth the wind through your hair? Not to me. Is it insane to risk getting road rash wearing jeans riding around town once in awhile? Not to me. It's a custom tailored cost/benefit analysis.

If you enjoyed riding around on a Harley with just a helmet, then do that on your other bike once in awhile. It's a numbers game though so mind how often. Also, passengers are fun on occasion, but they are taxing-- I wouldn't want to ride with one more often than otherwise
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:25 PM   #45
KX50002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmp View Post
I want to put my worthless opinion here too.

I've been in several major crashes throughout my riding career, I've broken my neck, ankle, and elbow all in separate incidents. Torn ACL, torn AC, bruised lungs dislocated ribs; I've crashed in full gear, partial gear, and helmet only.

Motorcycling is dangerous and pointless, so its about risk management. Is the risk of death / brain damage worth the wind through your hair? Not to me. Is it insane to risk getting road rash wearing jeans riding around town once in awhile? Not to me. It's a custom tailored cost/benefit analysis.

If you enjoyed riding around on a Harley with just a helmet, then do that on your other bike once in awhile. It's a numbers game though so mind how often. Also, passengers are fun on occasion, but they are taxing-- I wouldn't want to ride with one more often than otherwise
Wow, maybe motorcycles aren't meant for you? I can't imagine crashing that much and continuing to ride. I've only been riding for about 38 years...maybe with a little more experience?

BTW I actually enjoy h having my wife ride on the back,

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