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Old 03-05-2014, 05:52 PM   #16
flynride
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Joined: May 2007
Location: Irvine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZR View Post
when you find someone that needs rescue then what???

what if they're unconscious?

what if they broke their neck/back but you didn't know and they didn't realize it?

what if they're bleeding out of their eyeballs and ears and mouth??

are you certified in CPR? do you have the proper equipment to stabilize a broken femur/back/neck/ankle etc?

do you carry a winch to get an injured person up the side of the mountain?

great idea and I agree the Sheriff/Forest Service fucked up on this situation, but anyone riding/hiking/camping/etc in the wild, needs to have an out plan. whether it be a Spot/locator beacon or always riding with a buddy or having the proper gear to spend a day or two where ever you lay.

more and more people think they will be saved. wrong mentality. yes, if you subscribe to Spot you hope it will help you but don't rely on it and don't ride over your head.

when I ride alone, I take it down a notch. I also carry (to some people) way too much shit. but I wanna be prepared. even if I know there is civilization within a few miles.
You call for help and help out where you can. Most people know not to touch if something is catastrophically wrong. The idea is to find the person a fast a possible.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:00 PM   #17
flei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynride View Post
You call for help and help out where you can. Most people know not to touch if something is catastrophically wrong. The idea is to find the person a fast a possible.
You are right about it being important to "find the person as fast as possible". If you find the person, may I ask HOW you "call for help"? Do you have a radio that can access the emergency responders? Doubt it. Do you have a ham radio? Doubt it. Do you have a cell phone with service? If you are in a wilderness area around here: doubt it. If you have service, who do you call with your cell? Not 911....

If you have an interest in helping and some skills, why not volunteer with a body already organized to help. We'd like that.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:04 PM   #18
Vetmoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flei View Post
You are right about it being important to "find the person as fast as possible". If you find the person, may I ask HOW you "call for help"? Do you have a radio that can access the emergency responders? Doubt it. Do you have a ham radio? Doubt it. Do you have a cell phone with service? If you are in a wilderness area around here: doubt it. If you have service, who do you call with your cell? Not 911....

If you have an interest in helping and some skills, why not volunteer with a body already organized to help. We'd like that.
So we do nothing?
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:23 PM   #19
flei
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Originally Posted by fillet knife View Post
So we do nothing?
No, you do not "do nothing"!

I said, "If you have an interest in helping and some skills, why not volunteer with a body already organized to help."

I am from Mass. and know NOTHING about your area, but glean from this thread that this incident occurred in the Cleveland National Forest. Googled it and got this:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1-cal...g-1-still-lost

Read it and see search and rescue is no picnic! One rescuer received a head injury and 2 got lost and all 3 had to themselves be rescued!! Do you think this really helped make the rescue of the original victims more efficient?

Sooooo... why not volunteer with a body already organized to help? Quick search found these opportunities and sure there are many more:


http://www.fs.usda.gov/main/clevelan...r/volunteering

and this:

http://ocsd.org/divisions/office_of_...e/units/rescue

Your help IS wanted; we just want it in a way that is most helpful!
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:09 PM   #20
Jeff aka BOLT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flei View Post
You are right about it being important to "find the person as fast as possible". If you find the person, may I ask HOW you "call for help"? Do you have a radio that can access the emergency responders? Doubt it. Do you have a ham radio? Doubt it. Do you have a cell phone with service? If you are in a wilderness area around here: doubt it. If you have service, who do you call with your cell? Not 911....

If you have an interest in helping and some skills, why not volunteer with a body already organized to help. We'd like that.
Because the lame ass Sheriff didn't call or use that BODY OF HELP in time.

I guarantee if the call for help had hit ADV 20 guys would have been on those roads in minutes... the guy found in 2 hours when he was alive... and when they called 911 to report they found the injured man help would have come ! If they had to take a way point or count clicks off the trail to get a signal to make the call that's what they would have done.

Your organized system of protocol FAILED because unionized civil servants are in charge of it and THEY are the weak link ! That's the point.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:15 PM   #21
Vetmoto
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Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Central California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flei View Post
No, you do not "do nothing"!

I said, "If you have an interest in helping and some skills, why not volunteer with a body already organized to help."

I am from Mass. and know NOTHING about your area, but glean from this thread that this incident occurred in the Cleveland National Forest. Googled it and got this:

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1-cal...g-1-still-lost

Read it and see search and rescue is no picnic! One rescuer received a head injury and 2 got lost and all 3 had to themselves be rescued!! Do you think this really helped make the rescue of the original victims more efficient?

Sooooo... why not volunteer with a body already organized to help? Quick search found these opportunities and sure there are many more:


http://www.fs.usda.gov/main/clevelan...r/volunteering

and this:

http://ocsd.org/divisions/office_of_...e/units/rescue

Your help IS wanted; we just want it in a way that is most helpful!
I can see fine thanks.......
I don't trust government agencies anymore.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:21 PM   #22
flei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff aka BOLT View Post
Because the lame ass Sheriff didn't call or use that BODY OF HELP in time.

I guarantee if the call for help had hit ADV 20 guys would have been on those roads in minutes... the guy found in 2 hours when he was alive... and when they called 911 to report they found the injured man help would have come ! If they had to take a way point or count clicks off the trail to get a signal to make the call that's what they would have done.

Your organized system of protocol FAILED because unionized civil servants are in charge of it and THEY are the weak link ! That's the point.

Ok, I think I have wasted enough time trying to argue with you know-it-all laymen. I am outta here! You are blaming this failed rescue on labor unions??? You are kidding, right?

If you wanna-be heros think you can do better than the trained professionals, fine. The next time you need a cop, firefighter, ambulance, etc. don't dial 911, instead why don't you just call one of your wanna-be hero buddies and see how you make out....
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:27 PM   #23
flynride
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flei View Post
You are right about it being important to "find the person as fast as possible". If you find the person, may I ask HOW you "call for help"? Do you have a radio that can access the emergency responders? Doubt it. Do you have a ham radio? Doubt it. Do you have a cell phone with service? If you are in a wilderness area around here: doubt it. If you have service, who do you call with your cell? Not 911....

If you have an interest in helping and some skills, why not volunteer with a body already organized to help. We'd like that.
1. I know how to use my Spot
2. I would take a Sat phone if my main purpose is finding someone lost.

NO thanks on joining the existing SAR groups. I don't want to wait till daylight.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:29 PM   #24
Vetmoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flei View Post

Ok, I think I have wasted enough time trying to argue with you know-it-all laymen. I am outta here! You are blaming this failed rescue on labor unions??? You are kidding, right?

If you wanna-be heros think you can do better than the trained professionals, fine. The next time you need a cop, firefighter, ambulance, etc. don't dial 911, instead why don't you just call one of your wanna-be hero buddies and see how you make out....
Your font is too big. Giggle.....
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:41 PM   #25
Jeff aka BOLT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flei View Post

Ok, I think I have wasted enough time trying to argue with you know-it-all laymen. I am outta here! You are blaming this failed rescue on labor unions??? You are kidding, right?

If you wanna-be heros think you can do better than the trained professionals, fine. The next time you need a cop, firefighter, ambulance, etc. don't dial 911, instead why don't you just call one of your wanna-be hero buddies and see how you make out....
I am a formal volunteer for the FS. Trained by them. I'll be on my mountain in 30 minutes when they call.
I am a Red Cross Certified CPR/AED/Wilderness First Aid Trainer including First Responder Trainer... Train groups of off roaders for the FS
I am the proud son of a retired Police Officer... who himself is now a Volunteer Uniformed Officer for Sheriff Joe out of AZ
I live in the area of the country you admittedly know little about
I know how to type and make a point without resorting to billboard text

You are entitled to your opinion... but have the fucking grace to accept ours as well.
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Jeff aka BOLT screwed with this post 03-05-2014 at 08:06 PM
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:44 PM   #26
Mr. Carts OP
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Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Cahuilla Mountian
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SAR Pack Inventory (NASAR manifest)

  • 4 Bags, various sizes, zip locked
  • 1 Bandanna, handkerchief
  • 1 Cap or other headgear
  • 2 Carabineers (locking)
  • 1 Clothes bag, waterproof
  • 1 Clothing, adequate for climate
  • 1 Clothing, extra set, suitable for climate
  • 1 Compass, orienteering
  • 1 Flagging tape, roll
  • 1 Flashlight or lantern
  • 1 Flashlight extra, extra batteries and bulb
  • 1 Footwear, sturdy, adequate for climate
  • 1 Gloves, durable (leather)
  • 1 Goggles, or eye protection, clear
  • 1 Insect repellent
  • 1 Knife, multipurpose
  • 1 Lip-balm, with sunscreen
  • 1 Measuring device, 18 in. minimum
  • 1 Metal cup or pot
  • 1 Mirror, small
  • 1 Nylon twine or small rope, 50'
  • 1 Pack, 1800 cubic inch (minimum)
  • 1 Pad and pencil
  • 2 Prussik slings (suitable for 9mm to 11mm rope)
  • 1 Rainwear, durable
  • 1 SAR personal ID
  • 1 Shelter Material, 8x10 plastic or coated nylon
  • 1 Scissors, multipurpose
  • 1 Socks, extra pair
  • 1 Sunscreen lotion
  • 2 Tea bags
  • 1 Tissue paper or baby wipes (recommended)
  • 1 Tracking stick, 42"
  • 1 Watch
  • 1 Water container, at least liter size
  • 1 Webbing, 1" tubular - length suitable for harness
  • 1 Wire, 5-10', woven steel
  • 8 Wire ties, plastic, self locking
Personal First Aid and Survival Kit
  • 4 Acetaminophen or aspirin tablets
  • 4 Antacid tablets
  • 2 Antiseptic cleansing pads
  • 1 Antiseptic ointment
  • 6 Band aids, various sizes
  • 1 Candle, long burning
  • 2 Cotton swabs, non-sterile
  • 1 Duct tape, 5-10'
  • 1 Leaf bag, large
  • 8 Matches in a waterproof container
  • 1 Moleskin
  • 1 Plastic bag, zip lock, qt. size
  • 1 Quarter, for phone call
  • 1 Razor blade, single edge safety type
  • 1 Roller Gauze Bandage
  • 2 Safety pins, large
  • 1 Splinter forceps, tweezers
  • 1 Space blanket/bag
  • 1 Towelette, clean
  • 1 Whistle
Optional Personal Support Gear
  • 2 Antihistamine, 25mg Benadryl
  • 2 Extra leaf bags
  • 1 Extra water container
  • 1 Foam pad
  • 2 Food, nonperishable
  • 1 Gaitors
  • 1 Rain cover, pack
  • 1 Sterno or stove
  • 1 Sunglasses, 97% UV protection
  • 1 Trail snacks
  • 1 Water purification tabs
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:03 PM   #27
AZcacti
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I love the Monday-morning quarterbacks "I would have done this, they should have done that". I'm not hearing any "I was at the command post on my bike requesting to help".

Guys will talk a big game about wanting to help out , but if that call comes in a 10:15am on Monday when your TPS reports are due, are you going to drop everything to locate a stranger who went into the wilderness ill prepared?

If you have the motivation, join a local SAR group. Put your local knowledge to work for the safety and well being of a complete stranger.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:08 AM   #28
Fat Nelly
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Love these AZ guys

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZcacti View Post
I love the Monday-morning quarterbacks "I would have done this, they should have done that". I'm not hearing any "I was at the command post on my bike requesting to help".

Guys will talk a big game about wanting to help out , but if that call comes in a 10:15am on Monday when your TPS reports are due, are you going to drop everything to locate a stranger who went into the wilderness ill prepared?

If you have the motivation, join a local SAR group. Put your local knowledge to work for the safety and well being of a complete stranger.

The whole point of our frustration is that we were not notified, This site would have gotten the word out and there are men that could have helped and would have been at the command post while LEO contemplated their safety. I would have ridden that mountain in an instant. Was on it Friday night when it was really raining hard and it was perfectly safe for a capable rider.
If it takes us joining a SAR group then fine. But when they start to make decisions that get in the way of saving someone's life then it may become a problem. Certainly open to giving it a try.
The guys reaching out to help with future events like this would drop what their doing on Monday AM when the TPS reports are due. Most of us own our own business and ride frequently during the week so yes.
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:15 AM   #29
azshtr
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Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Oddometer: 1,898
SAR will not work with anyone but a SAR trained volunteer. I am a Maricopa County Emergency Communications volunteer (ham radio) and the closest we get is to work side by side if they need communications help.

However the 4x4 group I frequent has a great SAR team setup among themselves. Any post in the urgent help needed forum gets texted to all members of the SAR of the 4x4 group. They frequently go out well before official help does.

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/forum...rch-and-Rescue
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Old 03-06-2014, 06:22 AM   #30
cyberdos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Nelly View Post
Love these AZ guys.
This is how we do it AZ ADV style.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=956695
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