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Old 03-14-2014, 06:50 PM   #76
alii1959
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Originally Posted by Mr_Gone View Post
I don't necessarily think the +10% advice is the only way to go. It might work very well for some. I haven't tried it.

I have adopted the "gap in traffic" advice.

I find those gaps in traffic where there is no traffic, or very little. People ahead of me. People behind me. I find that gap in the traffic where traffic is farthest from me, and I will speed up or slow down to get into that gap. And I pay attention to who's slower and falling back into that gap, and who's speeding up into that gap.

That's just me, though. YMMV.
I'm a gap guy myself. I am always adjusting my speed to keep "them" away. Whether it means going faster or slower doesn't matter to me. Always remember "ride to ride again".
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:00 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Gummee! View Post
If you're moving thru traffic, there's little chance they're gonna end up behind you again. BTDT
Maybe its different where you live, but in the heavy peak hour traffic I ride in everyday you cannot really get significantly ahead of traffic when its moving. Your limited by the speed of the cars around you. The only place you can really make significant progress is lane filtering when the traffic stops at lights. That's why I don't believe the 10% is safer in peak hour traffic. Actually the opposite, the only way you can consistently travel 10% faster than peak hour traffic where I live is to take continual risks. You'll be constantly changing lanes, diving into small holes, or splitting lanes at speed. Pretty hard sell to convince me this is a safe way to ride in heavy traffic because I think its about the most dangerous thing you can do on a motorcycle.
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Old 03-15-2014, 01:30 AM   #78
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Pissed

Who said anything about HEAVY traffic? There's always somebody focusing/nitpicking on the most irrelevant/miniscule part of a post/topic and then thinking they've found some earth shattering/life changing mistake. How the hell do you think anybody speeds in bumper to bumper traffic?

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Old 03-15-2014, 01:52 AM   #79
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Sort of on the topic

Well recall a trip back from Alberta to my home in BC on the bike a few years ago. This is a highway that is mostly one way in each direction, but with occasional passing lanes. When it isn't summer tourist season, those passing lanes do allow you to get past the motorhomes, etc. and go. But this WAS tourist time. I, a couple friends on bikes, and lots of cars were passing at every opportunity to get around those slowpokes.

Then for a few seconds the view opened up and I could see the traffic well below me and a good half mile in front of me. SOLID VEHICLES, including big trucks as well as cars and motorhomes. That's when it dawned on me that while there was no way I could make my trip much faster, there were ways to make it safer and less stressful.

I kept passing until I passed a car that kept a decent distance from the vehicle in front of him. (Not all cagers are idiots.) I then held my speed just in front of this car in the passing lane so nobody could change lanes behind me, then slipped into the main lane. I was able to put several seconds of distance between me and the car ahead, and the favored car I had passed trailed me by several seconds. Relaxation time. I'd found a haven.

When passing lanes came up, I moved over as soon as possible to the center of the passing lane and also slowed so nobody could dart around me to the right.

Yes, I probably pissed off a number of motorists (and that is usually a bad thing) but only if they had not been observant enough to realize that on this very busy road, there was no time to be made in getting to their destination by passing.

Every situation is different. No rules that always apply. Riding a bike always requires thinking - and isn't that even one more reason we love it?
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:45 AM   #80
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" When passing lanes came up, I moved over as soon as possible to the center of the passing lane and also slowed so nobody could dart around me to the right "

dunno if I misunderstood something here. You went to the passing lane, and slowed down..?
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:44 AM   #81
Stonehenge
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
The reason it is safer to ride slightly faster than the general flow of traffic (other than all the other reasons already mentioned) is that when you do so, you are forced to be more engaged in the task of riding.

When you go with the flow you get lulled into the flow and fall into complacency far more easily.

Complacency Kills Riders.
There is something to be said about complacency, not everyone has top ability but concentration and anticipation is paramount. I do not profess to being an expert but I did ride police motorcycles (BMW K1100 & R1200) in city traffic for near on 14 years Day and Night and adopted the Police patrolling method of moving through the traffic, never riding with it. I have always ridden my own bikes in the same way moving through the traffic. Yes It does expose you to more possible situations than just sitting in a lane going with the flow but it also raises your awareness greatly. Its like racing, your concentration is hightened and you very quickly learn to read the traffic. I can only speak from Police and my own experience but I will always ride through the traffic. You can't maintain that level of concentration or anticipation going with the flow.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:53 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Who said anything about HEAVY traffic? There's always somebody focusing/nitpicking on the most irrelevant/miniscule part of a post/topic and then thinking they've found some earth shattering/life changing mistake. How the hell do you think anybody speeds in bumper to bumper traffic?
Who said anything about heavy traffic?? Try the OP, as it was the whole basis of his questioning the blanket 10% faster logic, and essentially the topic of this thread. Let me refresh your memory from the very first post:

The two lane rural roads carry so much traffic that it is difficult to pass even the occasional slower vehicle. To maintain a "10% faster than all the traffic" regimen and pass all traffic would be extremely difficult (dangerous?).

Once in town on the multi-lane feeder routes (two and three lanes each direction), the volume of traffic is increased (all lanes filled) to the point that there is virtually no way to consistently keep passing all the vehicles in order to maintain the "10%" rule.

Conversely, it seems that if traffic were light enough to make it possible to travel 10% faster than traffic then it wouldn't be even necessary from a "safety" standpoint.


Regarding posts that are nitpicking, irrelevant, and people thinking they've found some earth shattering mistake........yes, I totally agree with your sentiments.

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Old 03-15-2014, 09:32 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnCW View Post
Who said anything about heavy traffic?? Try the OP, as it was the whole basis of his questioning the blanket 10% faster logic, and essentially the topic of this thread. Let me refresh your memory from the very first post:

The two lane rural roads carry so much traffic that it is difficult to pass even the occasional slower vehicle. To maintain a "10% faster than all the traffic" regimen and pass all traffic would be extremely difficult (dangerous?).

Once in town on the multi-lane feeder routes (two and three lanes each direction), the volume of traffic is increased (all lanes filled) to the point that there is virtually no way to consistently keep passing all the vehicles in order to maintain the "10%" rule.

Conversely, it seems that if traffic were light enough to make it possible to travel 10% faster than traffic then it wouldn't be even necessary from a "safety" standpoint.


Regarding posts that are nitpicking, irrelevant, and people thinking they've found some earth shattering mistake........yes, I totally agree with your sentiments.

Boy, this is the kettle calling the pot black now, isn't it?

Nothing in traffic is black and white. There is no one-size-fits-all in any kind of vehicle use. It was, after all, meant to be a discussion.

Besides everything you spoke of depends on time of day and day of week or even year. The two lane road to Mid Ohio is quite clear most of the year, but traffic backs up quite a bit when there is a race day, and even then it depends on the time of day.

It appears it was to be a discussion of the merits of 10% over, the whys and wherefores. I think many have offered some interesting stuff. Most also said not 100% of the time and mentioned when/when not to do so.

Ten there is an assumption that the OP is not stupid enough to try to maintain 10% above when it is not possible and/or safe... at least I think he would like that to be the assumption. I saw it as more of a question of why some see going 10% over as a good thing.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:37 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Stonehenge View Post
...I did ride police motorcycles (BMW K1100 & R1200) in city traffic for near on 14 years Day and Night and adopted the Police patrolling method of moving through the traffic, never riding with it...... You can't maintain that level of concentration or anticipation going with the flow.
Here in Denmark, the MC Cops usually go at least 3 - 5 KPH SLOWER than the speed limit, causing a pile-up of scared dimwits scared to pass them, unaware of their speedometer showing 10% higher than actual.

Since I know my true speed, and know that they can't get you for less than 5 over, I make it all the way up to the MC cop and pull away doing 4 over.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:45 PM   #85
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[QUOTE=ErikDK;23700446]Here in Denmark, the MC Cops usually go at least 3 - 5 KPH SLOWER than the speed limit, causing a pile-up of scared dimwits scared to pass them, unaware of their speedometer showing 10% higher than actual.

Same here sometimes. How can that many people be afraid to pass thinking their speedometers are all wrong? I go a minimum of ten over everywhere I go including passing the donut boys and never get stopped for it.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:50 PM   #86
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For those of you that are, or were Moto Cop's.

I would be interested to know if the cars, or traffic treats you any different, when you are on your personal bike and no uniform, vs., being on the police bike and in uniform.

I am not a cop but I suspect sometimes they do see me on my M/C, and cut me off or pull out in front of me anyway knowing that I have to do whatever I can to avoid an accident.

The Moto Cop's I have seen while commuting, I notice everybody keeps their distance, and are generally well-behaved, and for some reason everybody seems to see them.
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Old 03-16-2014, 05:18 PM   #87
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Yes you are correct that motorist that actually see the big white bike with blue lights do treat your with respect and usually dont try to run you off the road, but 90% of drivers don't see you moving through the traffic until you have passed them. My previous post related to multilane city traffic. Country riding with light traffic not as critical. This debate is about safety, the more concentration and awareness you have the safer you are. This obviously wont work for everyone as we all know riders with limited ability, but if you are a rider who is on the ball moving through the traffic as opposed to just going with it should increase your awareness which also in turn decreases your reaction time compared to going with the flow and possibly being lulled into a state of complacency. At the end of the day most riders know there ability and should be able to work out what riding style suits them. A M/C cops job is to observe, this is not done by riding slower or with the traffic.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:25 PM   #88
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To answer the OP's question shouldn't we first establish how most open road accidents occur?
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:03 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post
I think the rule of thumb is that if you can keep moving, you keep moving. You always want to keep your position fresh in the minds of all the drivers.
If I hadn't been moving at least 10% faster I would have been killed in LA traffic, several times over.....and that's not for lack of trying either as im sure some of you know
It probably works in LA, but it would get me killed here. Except on the Interstate, which is mostly unoccupied (compared to LA).
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:08 PM   #90
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Ya city riding is totally different than anything I've ever done. You would get arrested in any normal town for riding in the way we ride around here. I mean even the cars double the speed limits on city streets, bikes even faster. 60 on city streets is very common.


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