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Old 03-14-2014, 08:35 AM   #31
scootrboi
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It tips without plunging, turns without wobbling, stops without shaking, takes off without shuddering. Goes where I go!
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:41 AM   #32
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Better handling is any motorcycle that behaves in corners completely unlike a 1970 Kawasaki Mach III.

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Old 03-14-2014, 03:38 PM   #33
1 Wheel Drive
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What constitutes "good" handling? That will depend (a lot) on the bike owner's intended purpose, and where, or rather what conditions, it will be ridden in. Why? Because handling, like most everything else in the real (non-imaginary) world, is a compromise.

The overall objectives of a motorcycle suspension are that the suspension should completely isolate the mass of the bike and rider from the undulating road surfaces that it traverses, and also simultaneously provide the required amount of articulation for the wheels to un-erringly follow the irregular road contours beneath it, and thereby provide maximum tire to ground contact, and therefore traction. Not an easy feat.

Then add the desire to have the suspension not allow the chassis to pitch (forward or back) during braking or acceleration so as not to allow the designed optimal steering angles to vary, and mess up how the bike actually steers through corners.

And the fact that the total load on the suspension will vary proportionally during heavy cornering, as a factor of the G force transferred into it, means that we are pretty much shooting at a moving target throughout a corner.

How you would know that a particular bike has "good handling" may be a bit easier to define, and maybe a more tangible point. It would be when a bike has the maximum possible cornering traction during the worst used road conditions, while also maintaining the best consistency of steering responsiveness and required stability, *which is an entirely different compromise set independently by the steering angles.

* It is easy to make a bike steer quicker or slower, be more stable or more responsive just by altering the steering angles (rake and trail), but that is only one part of what makes a bike "handle".

And yeah, a Kawi MKIII widowmaker was probably the poster child for motorcycle bad handling, closely followed by the Mk IV H2 750.
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:39 PM   #34
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Sooooo many times I see/hear people talk handling of a bike but ride it no faster than I could go on an old CL175. They never come CLOSE to using the machines full potential cornering. Yet, they'll spend a king's ransom on a finer carver. I've had guys stare at, scratch their head and ask all about my 850 lb. cruiser after following it through some twisty roads. Not that it's special, or I'm Casey Stoner, just that I'll use 90% of it's abilities, while they are using 40% of their R1150's potential. Just an observation.
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:27 PM   #35
klebs01
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Originally Posted by 1 Wheel Drive View Post
Then add the desire to have the suspension not allow the chassis to pitch (forward or back) during braking or acceleration so as not to allow the designed optimal steering angles to vary, and mess up how the bike actually steers through corners.
I don't understand the obsession on this site with preventing front end compression when braking. The bike should use nearly all the stroke on hard braking. One of the main reasons is to change the geometry and quicken turn in when entering the turn, while maintaining more stable geometry elsewhere.
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Old 03-15-2014, 05:31 PM   #36
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me thinks it means many different things depending on who you are talking to and what type of riding
I read once that Russ Collins describe a good Handling bike, as one that he could have the rear wheel go 18 inches sideways and he still did not have to back off on the throttle.

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Old 03-15-2014, 06:33 PM   #37
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I read once that Russ Collins describe a good Handling bike, as one that he could have the rear wheel go 18 inches sideways and he still did not have to back off on the throttle.

Walter

that sounds just like my V-strom with a car tire in back taking off on ice, eventually the traction starts to grab and you straighten out and before ya no it yer cruising along 40-45mph
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Old 03-16-2014, 06:24 AM   #38
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And yeah, a Kawi MKIII widowmaker was probably the poster child for motorcycle bad handling, closely followed by the Mk IV H2 750.
I wonder how many married guys bought H1s?

I thought my H1s handled OK if the power could be kept on and the frame flexed.
The tip in was better than than alot of other bikes around at the time e.g. GT750 Ducati
Straight line stability was good and combined with the tip in was quite effective.
Mid corner bumps were a bit of a problem.
Tyre selection (like all bikes) was critical as was set up.

BMWs of the time (and for a lot longer) behaved somewhat strangley under throttle off yet they had a reputation for good handling.

Handling is pretty subjective. I've had more pucker moments on an R80G/S then I ever had on an H1.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:38 AM   #39
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ride through a curve with some bumps at a good clip and you will know for sure

that is why I love ohlins
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:13 AM   #40
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ride through a curve with some bumps at a good clip and you will know for sure

that is why I love ohlins
I put an Ohlins on the rear of my Speed Triple, and Race Tech springs/Gold Valves on the front, and couldn't believe how planted it felt. Completely confidence inspiring. Worth the investment, IMO.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:02 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by concours View Post
Sooooo many times I see/hear people talk handling of a bike but ride it no faster than I could go on an old CL175. They never come CLOSE to using the machines full potential cornering. Yet, they'll spend a king's ransom on a finer carver. I've had guys stare at, scratch their head and ask all about my 850 lb. cruiser after following it through some twisty roads. Not that it's special, or I'm Casey Stoner, just that I'll use 90% of it's abilities, while they are using 40% of their R1150's potential. Just an observation.
If they screw things up or things are screwed up by circumstances they can't control, there are 60% left. For you there are 10% left.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:16 PM   #42
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If they screw things up or things are screwed up by circumstances they can't control, there are 60% left. For you there are 10% left.
Not if 40% is their best. That's what everyone has been trying to get through to you . Here and elsewhere. You can obviously count , you just don't know what the numbers mean. Or are ashamed to admit to it.
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:35 PM   #43
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" You can obviously count , you just don't know what the numbers mean "

Is WR a computer??
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Old 03-16-2014, 02:57 PM   #44
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" You can obviously count , you just don't know what the numbers mean "

Is WR a computer??
He's more of an abacus.
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:00 PM   #45
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I thought my H1s handled OK if the power could be kept on and the frame flexed....
Mid corner bumps were a bit of a problem.

BMWs of the time (and for a lot longer) behaved somewhat strangleyI've had more pucker moments on an R80G/S then I ever had on an H1.
Sounds like we share some experiences. Upgrading from a Honda 305 Superhawk, I rode my H1 for quite a few years and then moved up to a R100 (hinge frame to rubber cow). All of these old bikes rewarded smooth technique and would get unsettled mid corner on anything but smooth pavement in their own unique way.

On a smooth right-hander the H1 would throw a beautiful shower of sparks as the center stand grounded. Left side was trickier because the pipes would lever the rear tire off the ground.

Never cut the throttle mid corner on an old Beemer.
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