Enduralast from Euro Motoelectrics

[Malindi]

Originally Posted by sharkey

I've got a few thousand K on mine and I'm still a happy camper. Make sure you've connected and insulated all the connections well, and that everything is cable-tied into place neatly.

Remember that you can ride an airheads a long way without a
generator if you charge the battery overnight and leave your lights off.
Remember that even remote parts of the world have postal services.
Then box up your old system, including diode board mounts and rotor extractor bolt, and leave that with a friend who can post it to you if all else fails.

-----sharks

Word!! Indeed .. However, John is going to send me a rectifier as a spare and I'm taking that. Of course, I'll box and label the "old" system, just in case. But then again, John offered to support me when I was stuck in God-knows-where.

[sharkey]

Originally Posted by Malindi

Word!! Indeed .. However, John is going to send me a rectifier as a spare and I'm taking that. Of course, I'll box and label the "old" system, just in case. But then again, John offered to support me when I was stuck in God-knows-where.

He'd be mad not to. A couple of round-the-world trips and he'll have the reputation he needs to start selling the kit to less early adopters than you and me :-).

When I said "if all else fails", I meant "if EME goes out of business and you can't get onto the OEM and you can't rewind the rotor/replace the recreg with a Japanese one and you run out of cash for an Omega system" ...

I don't reckon it's likely, as long as your wiring and airflow are good.

-----sharks

[Indian]

I would run a stock system if i planned a trip to the other side of the world. What would happen if something breaks down with an aftermarket alternator and you need replacements?
With a stock system you just need to find the nearest dealer or a club with BMW riders.
Two years ago around Christmas I met a German guy with a sidecar and his alternator was not charging. I lent him my regulator and he was on his way after a few hours.
Such help will not be possible if things were not standard.

[sharkey]

Originally Posted by Indian

I would run a stock system if i planned a trip to the other side of the world. What would happen if something breaks down with an aftermarket alternator and you need replacements?
With a stock system you just need to find the nearest dealer or a club with BMW riders.

With any system, you only need a phone, a credit card and a post office.
The odds of finding a BMW dealer in Outer Elbonistan are minimal anyway, and how many of them do you reckon stock R-bike parts? Hell, even in Australia it's often quicker and cheaper to get parts in from the US or Europe.

For my money, the choice would be between the Enduralast and Omega systems. I just happen to like the Enduralast one better, and it's a smidge cheaper ...

-----sharks

[Malindi]

Originally Posted by sharkey

With any system, you only need a phone, a credit card and a post office.
The odds of finding a BMW dealer in Outer Elbonistan are minimal anyway, and how many of them do you reckon stock R-bike parts? Hell, even in Australia it's often quicker and cheaper to get parts in from the US or Europe.

For my money, the choice would be between the Enduralast and Omega systems. I just happen to like the Enduralast one better, and it's a smidge cheaper ...

-----sharks

You're forgetting that the Omega uses the same old system, only newer. Still has brushes, diode board, wound rotor and volt reg. The Enduralast is used in many more applications than an equivalent Omega system, hence my choice.

[Rogue Scout]

I've been following this thread with interest, as I want to install outboard lights on my 92 GS and the upgrade to either Enduralast or Omega makes alot of sense. Got to say that I sure appreciate all the comments here, especially Sharkey and BCostell. You guys model the kind of group ethic that makes this site so useful. Thanks to all.

Here are a few of my thoughts/questions?

The Enduralast is cheaper by well over $100. It puts out at least as much or maybe more than the Omega (not sure what the output of the Omega is at 2K, but the Enduralast claims 20 amps on the site).

The Enduralast has the regulator and rectifier in one sealed unit, with cooling fins to boot. This seems smart in terms of design, but is there logic to having the diode board and regulator in separate units ?

Omega has been out a while and seems to enjoy a solid reputation. Something to be said for that. However, when I read the posts here, it seems like the "test pilots" have given enough info to breed confidence in the new Enduralast technology.

The earlier posts regarding the "one size fits all" wiring kit seems like unnecessary confusion - the pictures on the Enduralast website seem to show a very clean "plug and play" setup, but the posts here don't sound plug and play. Omega, as I understand it, is plug and play.......

Appreciate any responses. Oddly enough, I just ran into Hilltopper here at the coffeehouse, and he is also thinking of doing the same thing, and has the same concerns. Thanks.

[Malindi]

A reply:

I've been following this thread with interest, as I want to install outboard lights on my 92 GS and the upgrade to either Enduralast or Omega makes alot of sense. Got to say that I sure appreciate all the comments here, especially Sharkey and BCostell. You guys model the kind of group ethic that makes this site so useful. Thanks to all.

Here are a few of my thoughts/questions?

The Enduralast is cheaper by well over $100. It puts out at least as much or maybe more than the Omega (not sure what the output of the Omega is at 2K, but the Enduralast claims 20 amps on the site).

The Enduralast has the regulator and rectifier in one sealed unit, with cooling fins to boot. This seems smart in terms of design, but is there logic to having the diode board and regulator in separate units ?

$$$ The reason they are separate is due to the evolution of boxer electronics. As things moved from magnetos onwards, bits were added but the full system was never revamped to allow for backward compatibility. Same with the timing. The new timing can still sits in the same place as the old points can, but ideally timing should be driven from the crank to eliminate "slop" from the timing chain. Again the design was not overhauled. There are high-tech newer ignitions for sale in Germany for airheads that mount on the crank and ignore the cam altogether. Charging systems have grown too. The Enduralast design is up to date.

Omega has been out a while and seems to enjoy a solid reputation. Something to be said for that. However, when I read the posts here, it seems like the "test pilots" have given enough info to breed confidence in the new Enduralast technology.

$$$ The Omega is a good system, no doubt about it. In my other bike I run an Omega diode board, none of the other upgraded bits, and the voltage at least gets up there much quicker than with the Thunderchild or stock diode board. The reasons I never went for the Omega were the following:

a) The system still has the same vulnerabilities as the old system, just newer and beefier components. The rotor is still a wound rotor, you are still dealing with brushes, a diode board and a voltage regulator. Stators rarely go bad, unless mishandled, so that's a wash.
b) Motorrad, at least at the time, was not willing to sell me a second rotor as a spare. The issue here is that the rotor used in the Omega system is slightly bigger than stock, and correspondingly, the stator as well. Meaning that if the rotor dies, you cannot use a stock rotor to keep going. You need a new rotor from Rick.

The earlier posts regarding the "one size fits all" wiring kit seems like unnecessary confusion - the pictures on the Enduralast website seem to show a very clean "plug and play" setup, but the posts here don't sound plug and play. Omega, as I understand it, is plug and play.......

$$$ The Omega is "plug and play", for lack of a better term. That is true. However, if you've figured out how to set valves on an airhead, you can install the Enduralast too. There are lots of bits provided for the install, depending on personal taste, but it quickly becomes clear you need a fraction of the bits provided to do the install. You do need to follow the instructions, which are now MUCH clearer than when I got my unit. It'll take you a few hours, but that's it.
More here: http://tinyurl.com/aydkf

[Malindi]

John (Owner of Enduralast) zapped me with his Taser saying the manual updates I saw on-line were only the minor ones. He then sent me a draft copy of the new one, to be released shortly. It's all purdy with LOADS of pictures and pointers, a list of steps and do's and don'ts. I think the next customers are not going to have any questions installing this puppy. Way to go John !!

[sharkey]

Originally Posted by Malindi

You're forgetting that the Omega uses the same old system, only newer. Still has brushes, diode board, wound rotor and volt reg. The Enduralast is used in many more applications than an equivalent Omega system, hence my choice.

Yeah, that's why I happen to like the Enduralast better. Less moving parts, it's a more modern design. It's also why it's a fair bit cheaper ...

-----sharks


PS: Just for hysterical porpoises, there's some info on my install at
http://zoic.org/sharkey/moto/r100gs/generator.html

[tonyc]

I just finished installing the endurlast systen on my 83 RS. I have a highly modified rear tail section, so mounting the rectifier ended up under the seat, on a reinforcing bracket. John sent me the new instructions, which i only made a couple of minor notes, otherwise the directions were excellent. This is my biggest concern, not a complaint, but John would sell more or easier if the connectors on the rectifier and stator were something that could be used, the connectors that come attached to the stator and the rectifier are for something Italian, not German, so everything gets snipped off. A little misleading. This is not a big deal, just takes some time to solder connectors on.
I used male and female connectors to the rectifier to allow disconnection if required.
I only finished the install today, so i do not have any road tests to talk about, but the output was over 12 volts at idle, and 14.5 volts at 2k with highbeam, and two 55w driving lamps.
I am very please with the outcome at the moment, and i feel confident that the system will be as durable as the stock system or the omega unit.
Tonyc

[Donkey Hotey]

I've stayed out of this argument for awhile but I'm going to clock in as another Omega believer. For anybody who believes the brush/variable field rotor is a bad idea, go pop the hood on your car and see what it has. Or better, show us a SINGLE modern car that uses a fixed magnet system like the Enduralast. The Enduralast is not a "more modern system." It's a cheaper, more simple system like used on most motorcycles, lawnmowers and other small engines.

The things that made the stock BMW system vulnerable had to do with the DESIGN of the diode board and its grounding methods, not the presence of one. The stock and Omega systems could be called "Automotive Style Alternators" and the Enduralast is a "Small Engine Alternator." All of our cars use similar brushes. I don't see anybody running out to put an Enduralast on their Yukon.

I'm not trying to debate this again but lets stick to facts here. Both systems have their advantages--pick your poison. Let's not start calling the Omega a loser. I wouldn't trade mine for an Enduralast and wish some of my other bikes had automotive style alternators.

[rockt]

So let's say a guy had an Airhead GS, hypothetically speaking, of course. And let's say he was a complete boob around motorcycle electrics, ('cause he grew up on Japanese bikes and never had to touch ANYTHING electrical, other than the odd sparkplug), though fairly competent with everything else. If the stock electrical system was causing him to worry about one of the various parts going bad, and not being able to troubleshoot/fix the problem on a long tour, and if this guy wanted to run some spotlights and a heated vest and he wanted to lope along occasssionally at less than the 3,500-4,000 rpm required to actually charge, of the two aftermarket systems, Omega and Enduralast, which would be recommended for this type of guy, (hypothetically speaking, of course )?

[Indian]

I have the Omega in my bike. I bought mine from Germany for under 400 dollars. Even if I want to I will not be able to use the Endurolast without sacrificing my alternator driven Silent Hektik digital ignition.
One weakness of the Omega in the US might be the fact that Rick does not sell you a spare rotor. I dont have this problem as I can get them here if I plan a trip to the other side.
The German pricelist has the price for the rotor.
The Bosch regulator and brush holder kit can be found at many gas stations and breakers yards in Europe, so what one needs only to carry is a spare rotor if needed.

[Donkey Hotey]

Originally Posted by rockt

which would be recommended for this type of guy, (hypothetically speaking, of course )?

So this hypothetical guy is at the mercy of the dealer? I would say Omega. It uses the stock brushes and harness so except for the actual rotor and stator parts, it looks stock, works like stock and troubleshooting is the same. A dealer may or may not have a clue as to what the Enduralast is and there is some variability in the quality of the installations (based on all that people have needed to do to install one). That may affect them wanting to touch it at all.

So if Mr Hypothetical knows enough to properly install the Enduralast, he probably doesn't NEED a dealer to work on the electrics.

On the other hand, if properly installed in the first place, the Enduralast only has two components that can fail: the axe head or the axe handle. Testing the stator windings is pretty simple with a voltmeter. If they're good, it's the 'other thing' (the regulator/rectifier).

MY problem with that system is that they normally kill both components. The rectifier usually shorts which causes really high current through the stator windings, which overheats them and burns that too. I've never seen a system like this that died in time to only replace one part. It's always been both (Goldwing 3x, Honda Shadow 1x, Suzuki 850 1x).

[rockt]

Thanks for your input Greg. You look at both sides and that's good.

Even though our hypothetical GS owner is electrically clueless, I happen to know for a fact that he would never take a bike to a dealer 'cause he would want to figure it out and be able to trust the work. Does this change your recommendations?

Also, would mounting the reg./rec. where it gets lots of airflow decrease the odds of it failing and causing the stator windings to overheat?