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Old 04-04-2014, 09:23 PM   #16
lucky6600 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
what precautions did you take before starting a motor that's been sitting for 25+ years?

did you squirt a few oz top cylinder lube like marvel mystery oil down spark plug hole?
did you drop the pan to make sure everything is OK before starting?

besides cleaning out fuel tank/carbs .. above are the two steps I took before starting 74 R90S that had been sitting 25+ years in an unheated storage shed. as a further precaution tranny and final drive fluids were changed before test ride.

picture seems to show bearing getting surrounding area hot enough to change color


Well .. good questions.

When we were moving the bike out of the cave, the bike was on a brick so the wheels were off ground. We did make sure the wheel bearings were still in moving condition. After taking apart, I found grace still in there even with that many years.

Piston was moving with the kickstand (with hand) while bike was on the brick in the cave.
Valves, top end, carbs, and oil pan were all checked and cleaned prior to start the bike.

The problem is the bearings were NOT in touch of any oil through out the years. I guess somehow mositure went inside.

If I had chance re-do it all over again, would I still try to run it without taking everything apart to check the bearings? I don't think so .....

I was told that buying a barn found old bike is just like gamble.







Quote:
Originally Posted by globalt38 View Post
What I find amazing and a testament to these bikes is that even in the shape you ultimately discovered it to be in - it actually started and took you for a little ride - in 32 degrees no less!


Yes, it was cold, but I just had to do it.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Renner View Post
Classic

Great news that you're writing new chapters of this bike's book.

curious what year / what final drive ratio


1965 and 27/6.

I don't aware R27 will have different ratio?

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Old 04-04-2014, 11:31 PM   #17
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky6600 View Post
Well .. good questions.

When we were moving the bike out of the cave, the bike was on a brick so the wheels were off ground. We did make sure the wheel bearings were still in moving condition. After taking apart, I found grace still in there even with that many years.

Piston was moving with the kickstand (with hand) while bike was on the brick in the cave.
Valves, top end, carbs, and oil pan were all checked and cleaned prior to start the bike.

The problem is the bearings were NOT in touch of any oil through out the years. I guess somehow mositure went inside.

If I had chance re-do it all over again, would I still try to run it without taking everything apart to check the bearings? I don't think so .....

I was told that buying a barn found old bike is just like gamble.
yes cosmetics, wheel bearings, etc are important ... but did you drop the pan to inspect internals?

seems if internals showed rust ... one would spray oil all over before attempting to start motor.

did you put a few oz of top cylinder lube before starting?

the first few seconds of running are critical on any motor. especially a motor sitting for 25+ years. one has to assume everything is bone dry .. one would be prudent to spin motor with spark plug out to build up oil pressures before starting.

squirting top cylinder lube insures first few seconds of running has lube on top end. the smoke will clear out shortly ..

above are procedures learned from bringing back to life several bikes/autos after sitting for 20+ years. provided vehicle was stored inside .. have never had engine failure getting motor running again.
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:05 AM   #18
lucky6600 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
yes cosmetics, wheel bearings, etc are important ... but did you drop the pan to inspect internals?

seems if internals showed rust ... one would spray oil all over before attempting to start motor.

did you put a few oz of top cylinder lube before starting?

the first few seconds of running are critical on any motor. especially a motor sitting for 25+ years. one has to assume everything is bone dry .. one would be prudent to spin motor with spark plug out to build up oil pressures before starting.

squirting top cylinder lube insures first few seconds of running has lube on top end. the smoke will clear out shortly ..

above are procedures learned from bringing back to life several bikes/autos after sitting for 20+ years. provided vehicle was stored inside .. have never had engine failure getting motor running again.


Yes, pan was dropped, cleaned, expanded along with the small oil pump at the bottom.

Top end was removed to exam the valves and piston top.

Everything looks dry, clean and moving freely.


The main issue was the crankshaft bearings were dry as well. The few kickstart spinning wasn't enough to bring oil up there.

After few drops of gas in the cylinder to trigger the first start, bike ran fun and stable enough for me to play around with the carbs and timing. At the time, the dry/rusty(???) bearings were starting to wearing out.


Do I learned my lesson? Oh Ya!!
Would I do it again for what I have done? Yes. Would I take everything apart to exam the crankshaft bearings to start it? NO
Overall, I am just a boy can't wait to play my new toy.
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Old 04-05-2014, 06:35 AM   #19
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky6600 View Post
Yes, pan was dropped, cleaned, expanded along with the small oil pump at the bottom.

Top end was removed to exam the valves and piston top.

Everything looks dry, clean and moving freely.


The main issue was the crankshaft bearings were dry as well. The few kickstart spinning wasn't enough to bring oil up there.

After few drops of gas in the cylinder to trigger the first start, bike ran fun and stable enough for me to play around with the carbs and timing. At the time, the dry/rusty(???) bearings were starting to wearing out.


Do I learned my lesson? Oh Ya!!
Would I do it again for what I have done? Yes. Would I take everything apart to exam the crankshaft bearings to start it? NO
Overall, I am just a boy can't wait to play my new toy.
if you dropped pan along with oil pump and top end before starting .. you did your due diligence. really puzzled why oil didn't feed to bearings?

your youtube video right after starting sure didn't give any warnings of damage to come. good luck on your project!

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Old 04-05-2014, 07:43 AM   #20
bpeckm
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Those engines don't have what we know as an oil pressure pump. The infamous slingers are the "filter", relying on centrifugal force to catch any debris after the oil has dribbled... Cam chain has a shot of oil going to it, lots of splashing and misting, but no high-pressure feed to the roller main bearings.

Kicking it over is tedious, and to get any real main bearing lubeing going on....lottsakickin!

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Old 04-05-2014, 07:56 AM   #21
Renner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky6600 View Post
1965 and 27/6. I wasn't aware R27 will have different ratio?
was 25/6 before July '63
http://www.beemergarage.com/documents/204.pdf

even with the crank bearings rusting from sitting dry for so long, it appears the project is in far better shape than most, at this stage.

I assume it's still a 6v bike and you're inclined to keep it that way(?)
The R27 6v system works very well.

I just realized you would have the "highly sought after" 15mm oil pump.
http://www.beemergarage.com/documents/207.pdf
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Renner screwed with this post 04-05-2014 at 08:02 AM
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Old 04-05-2014, 08:43 PM   #22
lucky6600 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renner View Post
was 25/6 before July '63
http://www.beemergarage.com/documents/204.pdf

even with the crank bearings rusting from sitting dry for so long, it appears the project is in far better shape than most, at this stage.

I assume it's still a 6v bike and you're inclined to keep it that way(?)
The R27 6v system works very well.

I just realized you would have the "highly sought after" 15mm oil pump.
http://www.beemergarage.com/documents/207.pdf

Thank you for the information. I found there are NOT many informatin regarding to those singles.
I understand it WAS cold bikes, but it looks like the market is coming up thanks to those MotoGiro types of events.



Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
if you dropped pan along with oil pump and top end before starting .. you did your due diligence. really puzzled why oil didn't feed to bearings?

your youtube video right after starting sure didn't give any warnings of damage to come. good luck on your project!


I kinda knew the bearings were having issue, but I wasn't sure which one (was hoping the generator one). I also was hoping the bearings will get enough oil after a short ride. It didn't happen neither.
Not regarding what I did, but only wish I knew that while I was working on the price with the PO.

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Old 04-20-2014, 07:01 PM   #23
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Finally the package arrived from German. They do take their sweet time to process the order. If their prices was only 1/4 of MAx's, I won't have wait that long.

Anyway, heat was our good friend through the whole process.





Well, too much wasn't a good thing neither, but we had no choice.






Money shot,






Seriously, whoever made those tools are genius





















Two men worked together for 5 hours (with a lunch break) and it looked just like a month ago again.





Two more hours later, it was up and running again. Of course, it's VERY quite now.








I haven't had chance taking her out for a spin yet, and it might have to wait until end of next month after the weddingS are done. (yep, wife is moving in )

I will have to say that this is a great learning experience. This rebuilt made me understand more about the bike, the design, and the way those Germans think 50 years ago. Lots places could be done better, but everything has it's reason to be there. Just like Dan told me for the PM, it's really rewarding rebuilt an engine. After this single, I can't agree with him more.

And, of course, I learned that, serious, Karma is a bitch, but at the same time, no pain no gain.

Thank you for reading.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:00 AM   #24
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love it.

thanks for posting.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:14 AM   #25
Biebs
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Thumb Great Job!!!!

You have been through that engine -Slingers are cleaned Good to Go for 25K


Thanks for posting pictures of the work done
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:08 AM   #26
lucky6600 OP
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Originally Posted by Biebs View Post
You have been through that engine -Slingers are cleaned Good to Go for 25K


Thanks for posting pictures of the work done


25K miles means >25 years
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:36 AM   #27
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Nice work Lucky! I am glad my old tools went to good use.


Enjoy the ride!
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Old 04-21-2014, 01:38 PM   #28
bpeckm
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It does my old heart good to see these pretty things get treated so well... even though they are no longer pretty young things, either!

Kudos, and thanks for posting the pics and the inspiration!

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Old 04-21-2014, 07:47 PM   #29
lucky6600 OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit Steve View Post
Nice work Lucky! I am glad my old tools went to good use.


Enjoy the ride!
Your tools really saved the day.

Once again, thank you
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Old 04-22-2014, 06:12 AM   #30
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Inspirational! Thanks for the write up and pics!
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