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Old 07-17-2014, 02:42 PM   #256
640 Armageddon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gany View Post
Dimitri, genius mate, another (version ???) just been designed based on your suggestion.
Was thinking something like this




Apologies for the quality, that was a quickie...

As far as the safety is concerned If I am not mistaken Balise (Troy?) is a beacon. It will not warn the rider or anything.
I do not like passive devices, and at one point we got with a friend after last year's unfortunate Australasian Safari event to discuss the option of creating a device which would be VHF/GPS based. Given the velocity and positions of the riders you can mathematically get a very good estimation of a crash since the paths will meet at one point. You can do all sorts of things with the data given, fast algorithms do exist and you can say for example ''if the objects will meet in less than 'X' seconds, show the rider a warning arrow, etc'' You can even calculate ''envelopes'' if the thing is a big truck or a motorcycle etc. I dunno if these things exist in our sport, but it seems that every single organiser we talked to was down to ''how much?'' ... The question that's always there....

Rally Safe will do almost the same, but from my understanding the unit has to be manually controlled to 'beacon' the message.
A brilliant device in any way, which has so many good functions.
Troy, which other unit so far has these features? Especially in Dakar, the only avoidance is the buzzer and light (on cars) and the buzzer (on bikes) there is no visual and there is no way to know what's going on ''over the hill' from my understanding in Dakar.
(a brief demonstration is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41iwe92_kR0 )

Apologies if I am getting far away from topic....
D.
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640 Armageddon screwed with this post 07-17-2014 at 03:08 PM
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:20 PM   #257
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Just so we don't talk into each others hats here... In an attempt to get a couple things clarified. I beleive there are two distinct parameters or safety aspects at play here;

One is the facitity for one competitor to alert OR to be alerted as to the proximity of another competitor, in the situation that they are close to each other on the piste and a passing manouver might be initiated. THIS is traditionally a function that the device known in DAKAR as the "sentinel" seeks to acheive, having been used for the last several years.

The other function that we are discussing here is a tracking device/rescue beacon that can be used to both follow/monitor the progress of competitors on the course AND even to be used as a distress/homing beacon, in the case of an accident, so that emergency services may pin point the injured riders location and effect extraction procedure. THIS is traditionally the function performed by the device known on DAKAR as the Irritrack. Besides the rally tracking function, irritrack has an emergency rescue beacon which can be set off manually by either the pilot themselves OR an assisting rider (in case of a big incident). The irritrack ALSO has a feature that allows the rider to send a distress message to the ORGA, or in the situation where a vehicle/motorcycle is stationary on course (other that at a control or refuel) for longer than a pre-determined period of time (is it 10 minutes? little help?) then a signal is recieved by the ORGA and they can "ring up" the rider via the irritrack unit to check all is well.

If this is what Dimi refers to as "active" and passive" systems, then it is my understanding that the "Rallysafe" system attempts to provide both a "sentinal" type of competitor proximity alarm AND a emergency homing beacon function, in the one unit?

Cheers.
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:38 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
If this is what Dimi refers to as "active" and passive" systems, then it is my understanding that the "Rallysafe" system attempts to provide both a "sentinal" type of competitor proximity alarm AND a emergency homing beacon function, in the one unit?

Cheers.
That's indeed what I understand as well. It does both functions. And If I compare it to the iritrack unit Dakar bikes use now, this thing looks tiny. Iritrack is quite big, and I wonder why The functions do not match the physical size of the unit...
Rally safe lacks the Iritrack function were the riders can talk to the organiser and vice versa, but still ... Kemal's accident for example and most accidents due to vehicles riding slow in a cloud of dust could have been avoided.
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:50 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
That's indeed what I understand as well. It does both functions. And If I compare it to the iritrack unit Dakar bikes use now, this thing looks tiny. Iritrack is quite big, and I wonder why The functions do not match the physical size of the unit...
Rally safe lacks the Iritrack function were the riders can talk to the organiser and vice versa, but still ... Kemal's accident for example and most accidents due to vehicles riding slow in a cloud of dust could have been avoided.
Remember that Irritrack also serves as a "data logger" for all the WPM's, sfatey/speeding zones etc. that the official download and check each evening on arrival to the bivouac, in order to apply speed zone penalties etc. So perhaps the hardware that performs these fuctions accounts for some of the size. I certainly don't think the engineers manufacture a "big ass box" just for the sake of cluttering up the cockpit with another big apparatus?

That it may be possible today to make it (irritrack) even more compact...? Perhaps? sure some progress has been made (irritrack design is now several years old, no?). then again, there is that other question, the cost AND the size of market place...? outside of the Dakar and FIM rallies at present, where is this equipment used?

Answer = very niché related marketplace and the 2return on investment" thing comes into play for the company manufacturing the tech. (oooh f#¤%... now I sound like I am at the office again... ).
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Old 07-17-2014, 05:53 PM   #260
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Thanks D,

This is what I came up with last night. The slot is a nice touch on your version, but I think Id rather the extra 'meat' against the hex bolt heads. We decided to try and bolts and nuts instead of tapping the clamp incase ham fisted (ie, me) stripped the threads leaving you with little repair options.


Personally Id like to see some sort of tracking system at Condo next year whether it be rallysafe or something else. If a front runner crashes someone from behind should find and assist. Being a back runner I was expected to be slow. But am I slow or have I hit a roo or a tree? In the latter, how long before someone comes looking for you? Is it acceptable to have a sweep truck find you 4 hours after you crashed unconscious or worse? Yes we take on our own risks but if the technology is there the risk can be mitigated. Nothing is fail safe (Eric Palante ) but it is some peace of mind assurance. Perhaps I'll carry a spot tracker if they dont.
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Old 07-17-2014, 07:38 PM   #261
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Rallysafe bracket

Guys your mount looks good, but let me make some suggestions....at the moment you are only using the 2 bolts from the rallysafe box to mount to the bracket - these are only 6mm and quite short. Like you, we have a few versions, but have ended up with one being a flat 3mm thick plate that picks up the 2 rallysafe bolts and the 2 bottom corners of the rallysafe box. There is 2 predrilled/tapped threads that you can use and still give cleareance for the cables. You can then just use the same "pillow brackets" from the MD to mount it to a crossbrace. Countersink these to keep the overall height down which is very important.

We also have a second version which is more complicated but more adjustable and doesn't require a fixed crossbrace. And a third version which uses the mounts from our barkbusters. The multiple versions allow fitment solutions depending on dampers/bar risers/cables etc

Lots of options - none will however make the box any smaller. For those using a roadbook mounted close to the bars - have fun !!

cheers CPW
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:14 PM   #262
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Need help bending my new roadbook back plate

Here is my problem.

For the Condo last year I wanted to make a new carrier for the MD and the IMO out of 4mm alu sheet. I tried to find someone with the appropriate machines but for what they wanted to charge me I could almost buy a workshop. So I built a brake myself from a few bits of wood, 2 SS hinges and some alu profiles - and made the back plate myself. The only issue is I can only bend in one direction, not the other, so it does not look as good as I'd like it to.

For the Safari I want to make a slightly better one. All I need is 4 bends, 3 to the inside, 1 the other way. No cutting, no drilling no welding.

Does anyone know anyone? Or is there a cool trick to bending 4mm alu i don't know about (it was pretty hard work last time)? Or do I have to build a new brake ...
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:43 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by geoz View Post
Here is my problem.

For the Condo last year I wanted to make a new carrier for the MD and the IMO out of 4mm alu sheet. I tried to find someone with the appropriate machines but for what they wanted to charge me I could almost buy a workshop. So I built a brake myself from a few bits of wood, 2 SS hinges and some alu profiles - and made the back plate myself. The only issue is I can only bend in one direction, not the other, so it does not look as good as I'd like it to.

For the Safari I want to make a slightly better one. All I need is 4 bends, 3 to the inside, 1 the other way. No cutting, no drilling no welding.

Does anyone know anyone? Or is there a cool trick to bending 4mm alu i don't know about (it was pretty hard work last time)? Or do I have to build a new brake ...
Although I am far, send me a drawing, and I can help. Four mm is thick in my opinion, I now always design 3mm with stiffeners. Even 4 mm can start cracking dueto vibrations in the bended areas.

Gany, don't know the specs on the device, but you can add to the bracket a couple of parts to grab it from the top as well to secure it. You know better as I have never seen this device before. Another thing to consider is vibrations. Iritrack is mounted on anti vibrating pads. May be even use some grommets? The specs on the device should state maximum g.
(I like the slot so the hexs do not rotate, if good quality aluminium, slot should not be a problem, leave 5mm material and you will be fine if the slot is tight)

Till later
D.
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640 Armageddon screwed with this post 07-17-2014 at 11:50 PM
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:50 AM   #264
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Geoz, there are shops around. After coming across similar issues as yourself I ended up finding a place 5mins from me (boiler maker/sheet metal workers) that folded up my plate for $20 cash. If you get desperate, let me know and I can get it done here (Melbourne). There is a good local waterjet cutter too who cut my 3mm ally sheet with all the holes in the right places as well. Could do 4mm if required Im sure.

D, will send some details of the rallysafe unit for your interest. Ive only seen photos, never seen it in the flesh. The studs in the unit are designed for a ram ball diamond mount plate. If Rallysafe think thats enough that should be enough? Ram mounts somewhat have some build in vibration resistance being a rubber ball though. There are 4 threaded holes in the unit in the corners which can be utilised as Don mentioned, however Id have to redesign the bracket again and it would be much larger. People could rubber isolate the crossbar if needed? Parts machined from 6061.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:28 AM   #265
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Great point I'll try to check some of the roofing places around.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:58 AM   #266
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Thumb That's one of the main reasons I hang here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
Although I am far, send me a drawing, and I can help.
Till later
D.
The sense of global ADV "rally" community in this place is just awesome.

I know we rave on about it at DAKAR time a lot (PackMule, Neduro - amongst others - have mentioned it often during the annual f5irehose), but it is something unique to the sport, that goes far beyond just "the big show" in January each year... In fact, I think it is evident even moreso in the lesser spotlight events... I've seen it first hand in Sth Africa... the Sahara, Australia and of course Mexico... rally creates a bond between competitors - often complete strangers - that is special.

Here we have a perfect example: a skilled engineer and die hard rally enthusiast from Greece, offering up ideas and support to a couple of Aussie team mates on the the other side of the globe (blokes he never met, other than in here).

The "Cahns" themselves are spread out/seperated across that vast red continent down under (Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide & Perth... look it up if you don't appreciate just how far apart THEY are ) and only come together perhaps once or twice a year (at events like Condo' or the Safari).

Yet the spirit of cameraderie (mateship in Oz talk) that is forged on events like the 'safari is typical... It spans borders, both political and cultural, it bridges the barrier of distance and time AND it brings people from different places together who share a common interest... the challenge to do something epic, memorable... satisfying.

That's one of the reasons the Australian Safari has such a big place in my heart. It has played a big part of my life, my family's life ever since 1985. It has been a while since 2007 when I last participated (my 12th), yet still today, there is not often a day that passes, that in some way shape or form Australia - and many of the people, places and friendships I experienced as a bonus of being a part of this great "happening - do not enter into or cross my thoughts.

I would like to thank sundowner for having the foresight putting this "Aussie Cahn's team preparation" thread up in the RACING FORUM. We the safari faithful usually waffle on down in the "Oz FORUM" ad-hoc about "our" Dakar down undr, and generally have a hoot of a time about it... occassionally there has been a "Safari" thread on here that discusses the rally as it is being conducted... but by and large the "rest of the world" (even our own little f5 rally world) has been largely oblivious to the unique race that is the "Safari".

tehdutchies involvement this year is a great example of just this; an ardent rally enthusiast for many years on events in europe and nth africa... last year our dutch mate gets a bead on this "Australasian safari" and after some chewing and consideration, throws his clogs in the ring to head down and participate in the ADV tour and chase the race from the comfort of the seat of his own rally bike. great stuff by all accounts and friendships formed for life.

This year... look, here he is on the "Cahn's" team heading down to be a support team member. Adventure, challenge, enthusiasm... mateship pure and simple.

i know that other Racing forum inmates from the states; like stagehand and seth... both who have competed in the moto category on Safari in recent years, will echo these sentiments... it is the people that make the race, it is the place that is just the canvas.

All the best for the 2014 Safari and the future... my personal thank's to the "Cahn's" for opening up this chapter and letting the rest of the "f5 loons" in here join in on your little escapade.

Long live the "Cahn's"... long live the "Safari" and long live ADV f5...
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:00 AM   #267
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Troy,


I really cannot add anything to that... the spirit in these types of events is just amazing. I love the pre-event build up threads and how people approach the problems we face when preparing/racing more than anything...

The Australasian Safari is special, it merges in my mind the amateurs, with the proffesionalism in the best way possible. I cannot put it in words maybe, (since I lack the vocabulary in this weird language ) but it's a beautifull rally and reminds me off the old good days I was watching rallies in TV. You see all kinds of bikes and people in thebest atmosphere possible. Not that the other rallies are bad, but they get more and more ''pro'' I think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gany View Post
D, will send some details of the rallysafe unit for your interest. Ive only seen photos, never seen it in the flesh. The studs in the unit are designed for a ram ball diamond mount plate. If Rallysafe think thats enough that should be enough? Ram mounts somewhat have some build in vibration resistance being a rubber ball though. There are 4 threaded holes in the unit in the corners which can be utilised as Don mentioned, however Id have to redesign the bracket again and it would be much larger. People could rubber isolate the crossbar if needed? Parts machined from 6061.
Gany, cheers for the dimensions. My guess is that Iritrack may use far more accurate GPS chips. These are usually larger and require more electronics (I remember Vbox). A simple GPS logger, 10Hz sampling rate is smaller than a packet of cigies. and if you add to that a 64Mb SD card you could log a hell of a lot data. The size may also have to do of how the electronics are protected inside as well... Anyways.

No Redesign is needed in your case Gany. (except if I am completely out of the design here ) if you need to use the four holes. Add a waterjet stainless steel part (2mm) which bolts in the two center bolts and its shaped like a ''spider'' with four ''legs'' in the corners. (Attached a thought as well...) Very cheap and may be more secure? Add grommets to the four corners and you will be good to go. Some form of damping should be better for the equipment in any case.

Gany, which switches the bikes will run?
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:00 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Your knowledge of the geographic placement and distance of Perth in relation to the rest of the country's population, the level of tourism budget/funding the various other state governments have at their disposal and your unwavering faith in Justin's entreprenerial skills is encouraging.

I hope for the Safari's sake... you are right.
I am ever the optimist as you know
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Old 07-18-2014, 04:29 AM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
No Redesign is needed in your case Gany. (except if I am completely out of the design here ) if you need to use the four holes. Add a waterjet stainless steel part (2mm) which bolts in the two center bolts and its shaped like a ''spider'' with four ''legs'' in the corners. (Attached a thought as well...) Very cheap and may be more secure? Add grommets to the four corners and you will be good to go. Some form of damping should be better for the equipment in any case.

Gany, which switches the bikes will run?
I have a bunch of SS at home gany, let me know if I can help.

This thread is awesome!!
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:16 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
The sense of global ADV "rally" community in this place is just awesome.

I know we rave on about it at DAKAR time a lot (PackMule, Neduro - amongst others - have mentioned it often during the annual f5irehose), but it is something unique to the sport, that goes far beyond just "the big show" in January each year... In fact, I think it is evident even moreso in the lesser spotlight events... I've seen it first hand in Sth Africa... the Sahara, Australia and of course Mexico... rally creates a bond between competitors - often complete strangers - that is special.

Here we have a perfect example: a skilled engineer and die hard rally enthusiast from Greece, offering up ideas and support to a couple of Aussie team mates on the the other side of the globe (blokes he never met, other than in here).

The "Cahns" themselves are spread out/seperated across that vast red continent down under (Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide & Perth... look it up if you don't appreciate just how far apart THEY are ) and only come together perhaps once or twice a year (at events like Condo' or the Safari).

Yet the spirit of cameraderie (mateship in Oz talk) that is forged on events like the 'safari is typical... It spans borders, both political and cultural, it bridges the barrier of distance and time AND it brings people from different places together who share a common interest... the challenge to do something epic, memorable... satisfying.

That's one of the reasons the Australian Safari has such a big place in my heart. It has played a big part of my life, my family's life ever since 1985. It has been a while since 2007 when I last participated (my 12th), yet still today, there is not often a day that passes, that in some way shape or form Australia - and many of the people, places and friendships I experienced as a bonus of being a part of this great "happening - do not enter into or cross my thoughts.

I would like to thank sundowner for having the foresight putting this "Aussie Cahn's team preparation" thread up in the RACING FORUM. We the safari faithful usually waffle on down in the "Oz FORUM" ad-hoc about "our" Dakar down undr, and generally have a hoot of a time about it... occassionally there has been a "Safari" thread on here that discusses the rally as it is being conducted... but by and large the "rest of the world" (even our own little f5 rally world) has been largely oblivious to the unique race that is the "Safari".

tehdutchies involvement this year is a great example of just this; an ardent rally enthusiast for many years on events in europe and nth africa... last year our dutch mate gets a bead on this "Australasian safari" and after some chewing and consideration, throws his clogs in the ring to head down and participate in the ADV tour and chase the race from the comfort of the seat of his own rally bike. great stuff by all accounts and friendships formed for life.

This year... look, here he is on the "Cahn's" team heading down to be a support team member. Adventure, challenge, enthusiasm... mateship pure and simple.

i know that other Racing forum inmates from the states; like stagehand and seth... both who have competed in the moto category on Safari in recent years, will echo these sentiments... it is the people that make the race, it is the place that is just the canvas.

All the best for the 2014 Safari and the future... my personal thank's to the "Cahn's" for opening up this chapter and letting the rest of the "f5 loons" in here join in on your little escapade.

Long live the "Cahn's"... long live the "Safari" and long live ADV f5...
TSC, You would not believe that just an hour ago I made it home from yet another long grinding day at work to then drop the kids off at the pool and while waiting, reading this reply on my mobile phone, I was overcome with such a feeling, I had small tears well up in the corner of my eyes. Thankyou mate, your words are the nicest thing I've heard all day. It's been one fast journey from the last Safari to this next one. In less than two months, this misfit bunch of rally racing mates will gather together to take on one of the best races in Australia, developed long ago by your family and many others. A big thankyou for your passion for the sport, along with all the other guys and girls here, the people who make this place the great home you want to come back to each day. I knew this thread would be worth starting long before the "Cahns" confirmed their positions in the team. I know myself and many other team members have been helped and encouraged enourmously by the support we receive here by so many inmates. As has been stated by others, being much more knowledgeable if the subtle finesse of the game afoot, it is the joy of being part of a greater family, a whirlwind of ideas, creativity and experience that makes Rally Raiding so enjoyable. It is one of the few forms of racing where you wish, hope and act towards a fellow competitor succeeding where you may stumble. That's truly unique as it goes against basic human nature. Roll on September 17th when we all stand side by side together as a team to take on the challenge presented.
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