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Old 08-03-2014, 03:59 PM   #361
640 Armageddon
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Congrats to the team and how you are following the dream!

Hey, nry.
Isn't that exhaust end can very close to the tank at its starting point (where the pipe meets the end can)? I am thinking that after a mild fall (if there is such a thing... ) it touches it and starts to melt it.



Looking forward to seeing more photos!
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Old 08-03-2014, 05:34 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by 640 Armageddon View Post
Congrats to the team and how you are following the dream!

Hey, nry.
Isn't that exhaust end can very close to the tank at its starting point (where the pipe meets the end can)? I am thinking that after a mild fall (if there is such a thing... ) it touches it and starts to melt it.



Looking forward to seeing more photos!
Its very close yes but also very solid. It could pivot a bit in the join but that too is more of a solid fit due to the tightness - its not coming off thats for sure.
I will most definitely be giving the bike a once over though if it goes down. The fuel hoses and the quick disconnects worry me especially after I think Kevin M at Dakar this year. We are even going to have to be careful with refilling the rear tanks as the filler cap is on the exhaust side and spilt fuel will run down the tank and could get onto the mid pipe no problems at all (never mind the breather pipe coming off and splashing fuel everywhere ! I have a plan for that though.

I guess I'm going for my favourite theory, the "sum of its parts theory" ie if I go down pipe side the pipe will protect the tank and the tank will protect the pipe - in this case from deflecting too far so any deflection becomes permanent. Safari tanks are pretty thick too. I once adapted a late model WR250 tank to fit an older WR with the oil filler in the frame. I basically melted it and pushed it / shaped it until I displaced all the plastic and got the shape I want so I have faith in them

Fingers crossed !!!

My training just took a blow stupid cross trainer just sheared a bolt off the back where the fly wheel is !! tits the cross trainer is my weapon of choice to work up a sweat and I'm finding its good for endurance in the legs.....and now I need a new one.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:46 AM   #363
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(never mind the breather pipe coming off and splashing fuel everywhere ! I have a plan for that though.
.
Route it well an long and make sure it cannot come off the fuel cap. If I remember correctly that is what KTM does
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:48 AM   #364
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Seems lik nry is determined to take out the coveted "burning effigy" award at this years Safari... known as the "Hindenburg Prize".
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:15 AM   #365
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Just finished day 2 of working/welding projects on the van. Now all set to go to my mates spray shop. Knocked up the metal framework needed to hold the service boxes in places, HOWEVER, they need to be the shorter clip lock lid fish boxes, not the taller ones (like Dave uses) -like these ones - reason being we need to fit 6 boxes in the back of the van, along with tools, drinking water, food esky, fuel jerry cans, two van spare tyres and spare bike wheels for the service point duties. (Plus the metal base also forms a bed, for the camper conversion I'm doing for when I finally retire from rally racing. ). They're fairly cheap (I think I paid about $30 for one in Perth last year) and they're as strong as anything. Consider buying one to suit your bike/eyes/favourite flowers/underpants, whatever, so you can find it easily during the race. Mine's blue, so that's taken.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:00 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Seems lik nry is determined to take out the coveted "burning effigy" award at this years Safari... known as the "Hindenburg Prize".
With Gonk Cluster?
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:35 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Seems lik nry is determined to take out the coveted "burning effigy" award at this years Safari... known as the "Hindenburg Prize".
Nah ! Not unless the prize is $25 grand cash.

Its not that bad a set up is it ?
I'm thinking I can do a few things to lessen any issues. I could lock wire or ditch the rear quick disconnect couplings all together, hopefully I won't need to take the rear tank off anyway unless I have an issue with my shock or some of electrics which will be covered by it.
I could also use the 21L front which means if I do hole the rear tank I can still carry a ton of fuel.

Or I could just ignore you lot altogether and go with "she'll be right mate" and trust my skills
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:29 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post


Just finished day 2 of working/welding projects on the van. Now all set to go to my mates spray shop. Knocked up the metal framework needed to hold the service boxes in places, HOWEVER, they need to be the shorter clip lock lid fish boxes, not the taller ones (like Dave uses) -like these ones - reason being we need to fit 6 boxes in the back of the van, along with tools, drinking water, food esky, fuel jerry cans, two van spare tyres and spare bike wheels for the service point duties. (Plus the metal base also forms a bed, for the camper conversion I'm doing for when I finally retire from rally racing. ). They're fairly cheap (I think I paid about $30 for one in Perth last year) and they're as strong as anything. Consider buying one to suit your bike/eyes/favourite flowers/underpants, whatever, so you can find it easily during the race. Mine's blue, so that's taken.
Dimensions of the boxes required to fit your frame ?
I've got a nice lime green box (with a big 34 on it) that are the type cpw use to carry on their truck with hinged lids. Grace couriers use them too. You might have to rebuild your frame
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:38 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Sundowner View Post


Just finished day 2 of working/welding projects on the van. Now all set to go to my mates spray shop. Knocked up the metal framework needed to hold the service boxes in places, HOWEVER, they need to be the shorter clip lock lid fish boxes, not the taller ones (like Dave uses) -like these ones - reason being we need to fit 6 boxes in the back of the van, along with tools, drinking water, food esky, fuel jerry cans, two van spare tyres and spare bike wheels for the service point duties. (Plus the metal base also forms a bed, for the camper conversion I'm doing for when I finally retire from rally racing. ). They're fairly cheap (I think I paid about $30 for one in Perth last year) and they're as strong as anything. Consider buying one to suit your bike/eyes/favourite flowers/underpants, whatever, so you can find it easily during the race. Mine's blue, so that's taken.
What are the dimensions? I bought 80 liter boxes from Big W for 15 bucks each.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:02 PM   #370
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They're made by Okka Products - here they are here in the exact size. Anything else is a waste of money as the quality and durability is up to the job needed. I used these for 100's of thousands of kilometres in my desert tours and they're virtually unbreakable in most situations. They also ship really well, as you can zip tie the lid on easily.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:06 AM   #371
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They're made by Okka Products - here they are here in the exact size. Anything else is a waste of money as the quality and durability is up to the job needed. I used these for 100's of thousands of kilometres in my desert tours and they're virtually unbreakable in most situations. They also ship really well, as you can zip tie the lid on easily.
I have in my Garage

680L x 430W x 330H

Or

570L x 470H x 295H

Neither are the dimensions of your crate, 654L x 413W? x 276H?
What are the dimensions of your frame ?
Will mine fit ?, I've done "box shopping" and built a bike crate around the boxes and already worked out what will fit into them (sloping sides etc). I don't really want to go and buy more boxes for this application as well at this point in the proceedings.

These crates are going on the refuelling truck and will carry items for emergency repairs / minor service ? So will carry not much at all really ? possibly not be back to the bivvy when the bikes get back on a long day ? which means you would need to double up on some items ?? I thought you were restricted to what you could perform at those stops either by it being stipulated in the regs or by time ?

If the fuelling / service vehicle is carrying everyones servicing stuff all the while then its going to get bounced around a fair bit. I was going to keep all my servicing stuff on the truck and hopefully keep it together during the day.

Whats your plan for this vehicle. Lots of questions eh ! its because Its not clear to me, sorry.

Take it off line if you want.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:13 AM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nry View Post
I have in my Garage

680L x 430W x 330H

Or

570L x 470H x 295H

Neither are the dimensions of your crate, 654L x 413W? x 276H?
What are the dimensions of your frame ?
Will mine fit ?, I've done "box shopping" and built a bike crate around the boxes and already worked out what will fit into them (sloping sides etc). I don't really want to go and buy more boxes for this application as well at this point in the proceedings.

These crates are going on the refuelling truck and will carry items for emergency repairs / minor service ? So will carry not much at all really ? possibly not be back to the bivvy when the bikes get back on a long day ? which means you would need to double up on some items ?? I thought you were restricted to what you could perform at those stops either by it being stipulated in the regs or by time ?

If the fuelling / service vehicle is carrying everyones servicing stuff all the while then its going to get bounced around a fair bit. I was going to keep all my servicing stuff on the truck and hopefully keep it together during the day.

Whats your plan for this vehicle. Lots of questions eh ! its because Its not clear to me, sorry.

Take it off line if you want.
Please don't take it off line, I would like to know too.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:21 AM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troy safari carpente View Post
Seems lik nry is determined to take out the coveted "burning effigy" award at this years Safari... known as the "Hindenburg Prize".
Quote:
Originally Posted by garfey View Post
With Gonk Cluster?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nry View Post
Nah ! Not unless the prize is $25 grand cash.

Its not that bad a set up is it ?
I'm thinking I can do a few things to lessen any issues. I could lock wire or ditch the rear quick disconnect couplings all together, hopefully I won't need to take the rear tank off anyway unless I have an issue with my shock or some of electrics which will be covered by it.
I could also use the 21L front which means if I do hole the rear tank I can still carry a ton of fuel.

Or I could just ignore you lot altogether and go with "she'll be right mate" and trust my skills
knowing Dimi (Armageddon 640) and his backkground/enthusiasm for designing/engineering quality rally solutions... I can assure you, he did not take the time to put his thoughts down about the mounting/placement of your ehaust in regards to the rear tank, merely cause he needed to bump his post count. I think the advice was of genuine concern, and I for one will say - I share that concern - all joking aside.

It may be the angle of the photo (but I doubt it - having looked closer). In the close up, it apperas that the tank is only clearing the front edge of the silencer by 5 to 10 mm or so? Not much room for a "lay down tweak" and then it's in CONTACT with the plastic tank.

Also the route of what appears to be the side tank fuel petcock and fuel line? It appears to lay just above the stainless steel exhaust, where it curves up to join the silencer...? (wrapped in black spiral cable protection?)

The "hindenberg" thing was just a light hearted gag nry... but fact is; the each year on the Dakar and Safari, there is always some poor b@st@rd who falls prey to the "smouldering rear fender/up in flames" syndrome... due often to poorly executed or damaged rear fuel cell/fuel line/exhaust set ups.

I know it is a pain in the @rse - after having designed, fabricated and put together a build, to come to the realisation that one part is less than optimal. Yeah... although it's easier to go with "she'll be right mate..." - like you say... you got 25G invested in this deal. Armageddon would not have mentioned it, had he not immediately felt it was a potential weak point... Me? - I feel the same.

While the advantages of running the high exhaust routing (as opposed to lowboy/under the pegs) is obviously less prone to rock/crushing damage. The route of the header pipe has big consequences in terms of heat build up and proximity (under the fuel tanks, rear brake master cyl., closeness to electrics and even heat into the rear shock body/remote resevoir). These are reasons why most teams (GHR included) opt for the "low boy" rally pipe route... and prefer to use a "bismark" style sumpguard instead to protect as much as possible.

I can see the plus points to the system you've chosen; AND although it will be a pain in the butt, if you choose to stay with that design - I would recommend trying to re-fabricate the last bend in the tail pipe to pivot the silencer down at the front/up at rear to improve clearance and do something to protect the rear fuel line (look at the boot scuff marks on the frame rails... the fuel line is right there).

You say that the rear silencer is " very solid" mounted. Often very solid = something else breaks (weakest link theory)... subframe... tank mounting point (leak). Sometimes (after a lay down) stuff can "move" - it starts rubbin' and smoulderin'... and on those long transport sections (vibration and heat build up) can go un-noticed by the rider until some well meaning Safari compatriot comes up beside, taps you on the shoulder andpoints out to you while passing; " hey mate... your arse is in flames..."

It HAS happened... more than once... just sayin'.
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troy safari carpente screwed with this post 08-05-2014 at 01:33 AM
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:34 AM   #374
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This is a difficult one, I have spent a lot of time thinking about this too. I don't think there is a good solution. With the Safari tanks coming down on either side you have to get the line over / under the exhaust. I think I have found a workable solution running the fuel line down under the exhaust header pipe and across using the rear brake line as an anchor point. I will use steel braided lines; I know that will not prevent melting issues but should go a way to preventing them from chafing.

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Old 08-05-2014, 02:04 AM   #375
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^^^ geoz... while we're on the subject*, maybe a quick suggestion on a solution for your dilemma;

(*while I am at it - this is for both nry and geoz - I appreciate that sometimes photo's do not really convey the whole deal; and things can look a bit different "in the flesh" - so take this good intentioned hints for what they are).

This is a similar fitting scenario (regards fuel taps/lines) for most of the safari rear tanks on late model CRF's, WRF, EXC's and event the FE Husa's... especially with the OEM exhaust systems.

As a suggestion for you hg; is it possible to wrap the exhaust pipe in heat cloth tape (behind the plastic cover/guard)? This might protect the shock body, rear master cyl. and fuel line from heat?

Over the fuel line, could you fabricate a smooth thin prtector/guard from aluminium or stainless plate (think: the old DeVol frame protectors) to protect the fuel line from boot/sticks/laydowns.

You could use the same bolt/mount points as the plastic guard... just maybe 5mm longer screws needed.

good luck with all the final touches guys!
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