Stealing?!?

chadhargis · 12-18-2001, 10:25 AM

Since Fish has found safe haven here from that "other" RT site, I figure I'll release my agressions here.

Someone posted a thread regarding the BMW Repair Manual on CD. I mentioned that if anyone had one, to rip an ISO of it and I'd post it on my FTP site for a few days so us folks with burners could make a copy.

I pretty much was accused of being a thief, and one guy said he hoped the software police found me! Can you believe that?!? :eek:

What a drip! If BMW would offer the darn thing at a fair price, I'd buy it.

Gesh! I just can't believe some people. If you think it's stealing, don't take a copy...but don't call someone a thief.

BTW Fish, what did you do to get "banned"? (Like you couldn't sign up under a different name! Fools!)

fish · 12-18-2001, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chadhargis
BTW Fish, what did you do to get "banned"? (Like you couldn't sign up under a different name! Fools!)

Actually, I don't remember anymore

I'm pretty sure it had something to do with calling the moderators "fascists" or something.

stevenknapp · 12-18-2001, 11:24 AM

MRN turned off some innocent guys account because they thought that person was fish. Your IP would be the sig they could look for.

I know the guy, sorta, that posted that. Seems normal enough I guess. I know it seems sorta rude, but it is stealing.

Take BMW's perspective. They make the service manual available to shops for business reasons. It takes quite a bit of work/money to put together a good model specific manual. If you copy their CD, they don't make money back on that development, so what business reason do they have to make a public service manual next time?

Eh, I'm on the fence. I pay for most software, all work related SW. But OTOH I've got MDs with music I don't own (and wouldn't buy).

And Fish, ya gave Cary crap about asking for Tshirt folding help. Never did see that post. Darn! :):

* SHAG * · 12-18-2001, 11:35 AM

I never got to see it either

moon · 12-18-2001, 12:21 PM

Microsoft has come up with a way to keep people honest. The latest version of Office (XT) will only run 50 times if you don't register it over the Web or by phone. They've pretty much got us by the gonads. Unless you can manage to stay Unix, we're all stuck buying every new release Bill decides to put out -- eventually.

Paying BMW for the work needed to compile a service manual CD would bother me much less.

stevenknapp · 12-18-2001, 12:32 PM

Yup...I've heard they want to get more and more towards time based licenses. Go figure...it's a way to make more $$$.

chadhargis · 12-18-2001, 02:04 PM

Well, the guy apoligized, and I guess I was just taken aback by his comments this morning. I'm over it now. Maybe I got my period today...my mangina acting up!

Either way...doesn't matter.

Like I said on Cary's site. It's sort of like getting the movie channels on cable and not paying for them. Do you call and report that to the cable company? Do you just skip over the channels? Or do you enjoy the movies? Most would enjoy the movies.

If I were a BMW mechanic and I made money off the CD, I'd gladly buy it. But just wanting to take a look at it, and maybe refer to a torque specification once in a blue moon, it's not worth me buying it. I don't wrench on my own bike, because I don't know what the heck I'm doing and I don't think any book or CD can teach you. You have to put your hands on it. Trial and error on a bike can be deadly.

Folding T-Shirts?!? Sorry I missed that one too. Can't imagine somone being denied their freedom of speech here in the good ole' US of A.

steveB · 12-18-2001, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chadhargis

I pretty much was accused of being a thief, and one guy said he hoped the software police found me!

- "stealing" unh huh, yea sure ok. when will it be available for downloading...?

"who ARE the brain police..." Frank Zappa

steve

stevenknapp · 12-18-2001, 02:42 PM

Chad, ya let me down...you cooled off and took the high road.

I agree with you totally. I'm in the other boat. I use the darn things enough to justify the expense. "Fair price" depends on the cost to develop and the value to the customer. If/when BMW issues the 1150RT CD I'll be in line to buy one. And I'll be sure to consider you as an off-site-backup site.

Rod · 12-18-2001, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moon
Microsoft has come up with a way to keep people honest. The latest version of Office (XT) will only run 50 times if you don't register it over the Web or by phone. They've pretty much got us by the gonads. Unless you can manage to stay Unix, we're all stuck buying every new release Bill decides to put out -- eventually.

Paying BMW for the work needed to compile a service manual CD would bother me much less.

If you wish to beocme a BILL decipal you have too pay the price,

but WIN 2000 offers all the functinality with out the price so does office 2000 and if you wish to give MS the flick there is REDHAT linux and a few more

Sil · 12-18-2001, 03:28 PM

I'd take a ripped copy of the service manual in a New York minute. Is it stealing, hell yes. That being said, if I found I used it enough I'd buy it, like I did with Quicken, Norton utilities, etc. The problem with BMW is they over-price their aftermarket products. Its a crying shame, but true. I know that is not an excuse for taking something I did not buy, but economics rule.

I did not realize this was my first post in this particular forum, what the hell took me so long?

freaking RT · 12-18-2001, 04:00 PM

IMHO, this is apples and oranges-- comparing MS and BMW info
MS, Novell (and is way ahead of MS), and many others (too many to name) post manuals and other info as a part of ongoing customer service and realize that it is part of good business practice. What MS has done with the "new" OS and application registration policy it to try to protect the rip off of the "product".
In a way I agree with Chad, he's searching for information. BMW should as a "service" to the customer provide easier access to material that can benefit the user of the product. We're not ripping off bikes and then asking for manuals, just have a desire for the information to make our lives easier and continue to promote and ride BMW products. BMW should realize that providing information is a cost of doing business and will enhance and promote it's business.
whew

But, BMW by protecting that info, technically and legally MRN is right

So, who wants to spit the cost of the CD and burn a few copies?

ps. Chad, Deals Gap in the spring?

fish · 12-18-2001, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sil

I did not realize this was my first post in this particular forum, what the hell took me so long?

Hi Sil...welcome to the asylum!

freaking RT · 12-18-2001, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fish
Hi Sil...welcome to the asylum!

, yea, what Fish said...

moon · 12-18-2001, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rod
If you wish to beocme a BILL decipal you have too pay the price,

I'm not sure what leap of logic brought you to that conclusion but please don't refer to me as a "Bill disciple".

12-18-2001, 10:25 AM	#1
chadhargis ^OP Too tall for sportbikes Joined: Dec 2001 Location: Florence, AL Oddometer: 2,043	Stealing?!? Since Fish has found safe haven here from that "other" RT site, I figure I'll release my agressions here. Someone posted a thread regarding the BMW Repair Manual on CD. I mentioned that if anyone had one, to rip an ISO of it and I'd post it on my FTP site for a few days so us folks with burners could make a copy. I pretty much was accused of being a thief, and one guy said he hoped the software police found me! Can you believe that?!? :eek: What a drip! If BMW would offer the darn thing at a fair price, I'd buy it. Gesh! I just can't believe some people. If you think it's stealing, don't take a copy...but don't call someone a thief. BTW Fish, what did you do to get "banned"? (Like you couldn't sign up under a different name! Fools!)

12-18-2001, 11:35 AM	#4
* SHAG * Unstable Joined: Nov 2001 Location: Bradford, Pa Oddometer: 3,920	bad fishie I never got to see it either __________________ Go like hell, You'll get there quicker! 99-RT- Graphite 50k Gone 01-GS- Mandarin 42k Gone 05-GS- Rock Red 83k 06-GS- Dakar-40k Sold

12-18-2001, 12:21 PM	#5
moon Space Cowboy Joined: Nov 2001 Location: Denver, Colorado Oddometer: 413	Microsoft has come up with a way to keep people honest. The latest version of Office (XT) will only run 50 times if you don't register it over the Web or by phone. They've pretty much got us by the gonads. Unless you can manage to stay Unix, we're all stuck buying every new release Bill decides to put out -- eventually. Paying BMW for the work needed to compile a service manual CD would bother me much less. __________________ Y2K R1150GS <font color="silver"> Losing your mind makes it harder to find.</font>

12-18-2001, 02:04 PM	#7
chadhargis ^OP Too tall for sportbikes Joined: Dec 2001 Location: Florence, AL Oddometer: 2,043	Apology Well, the guy apoligized, and I guess I was just taken aback by his comments this morning. I'm over it now. Maybe I got my period today...my mangina acting up! Either way...doesn't matter. Like I said on Cary's site. It's sort of like getting the movie channels on cable and not paying for them. Do you call and report that to the cable company? Do you just skip over the channels? Or do you enjoy the movies? Most would enjoy the movies. If I were a BMW mechanic and I made money off the CD, I'd gladly buy it. But just wanting to take a look at it, and maybe refer to a torque specification once in a blue moon, it's not worth me buying it. I don't wrench on my own bike, because I don't know what the heck I'm doing and I don't think any book or CD can teach you. You have to put your hands on it. Trial and error on a bike can be deadly. Folding T-Shirts?!? Sorry I missed that one too. Can't imagine somone being denied their freedom of speech here in the good ole' US of A.

12-18-2001, 03:28 PM	#11
Sil ProgRock Adventurer Joined: Nov 2001 Location: Waldorf, MD (for now) Oddometer: 3	I'd take a ripped copy of the service manual in a New York minute. Is it stealing, hell yes. That being said, if I found I used it enough I'd buy it, like I did with Quicken, Norton utilities, etc. The problem with BMW is they over-price their aftermarket products. Its a crying shame, but true. I know that is not an excuse for taking something I did not buy, but economics rule. I did not realize this was my first post in this particular forum, what the hell took me so long? __________________ Be good, Mike K. "A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willie Wonka Sil screwed with this post 12-18-2001 at 03:58 PM

12-18-2001, 11:24 AM	#3
stevenknapp Beastly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2001 Location: Grayslake, IL, USA Oddometer: 1,221	MRN turned off some innocent guys account because they thought that person was fish. Your IP would be the sig they could look for. I know the guy, sorta, that posted that. Seems normal enough I guess. I know it seems sorta rude, but it is stealing. Take BMW's perspective. They make the service manual available to shops for business reasons. It takes quite a bit of work/money to put together a good model specific manual. If you copy their CD, they don't make money back on that development, so what business reason do they have to make a public service manual next time? Eh, I'm on the fence. I pay for most software, all work related SW. But OTOH I've got MDs with music I don't own (and wouldn't buy). And Fish, ya gave Cary crap about asking for Tshirt folding help. Never did see that post. Darn! :):

12-18-2001, 12:32 PM	#6
stevenknapp Beastly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2001 Location: Grayslake, IL, USA Oddometer: 1,221	Yup...I've heard they want to get more and more towards time based licenses. Go figure...it's a way to make more $$$.

12-18-2001, 02:42 PM	#9
stevenknapp Beastly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2001 Location: Grayslake, IL, USA Oddometer: 1,221	Chad, ya let me down...you cooled off and took the high road. I agree with you totally. I'm in the other boat. I use the darn things enough to justify the expense. "Fair price" depends on the cost to develop and the value to the customer. If/when BMW issues the 1150RT CD I'll be in line to buy one. And I'll be sure to consider you as an off-site-backup site.

12-18-2001, 04:00 PM	#12
freaking RT will golf for food Joined: Nov 2001 Location: just outside Richmond, VA Oddometer: 27,248	OK, I'm up on the ole soapbox on this one IMHO, this is apples and oranges-- comparing MS and BMW info MS, Novell (and is way ahead of MS), and many others (too many to name) post manuals and other info as a part of ongoing customer service and realize that it is part of good business practice. What MS has done with the "new" OS and application registration policy it to try to protect the rip off of the "product". In a way I agree with Chad, he's searching for information. BMW should as a "service" to the customer provide easier access to material that can benefit the user of the product. We're not ripping off bikes and then asking for manuals, just have a desire for the information to make our lives easier and continue to promote and ride BMW products. BMW should realize that providing information is a cost of doing business and will enhance and promote it's business. whew But, BMW by protecting that info, technically and legally MRN is right So, who wants to spit the cost of the CD and burn a few copies? ps. Chad, Deals Gap in the spring? __________________ IBA#10787 “We, the people, are the rightful masters of both congress and the courts - not to overthrow the constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the constitution.” – Abraham Lincoln "Fathom the odd hypocrisy that Obama wants every citizen to prove they are insured, but people don't have to prove they are citizens". -Anonymous WV VA Good Eats Map freakingRTrider screwed with this post 12-20-2001 at 11:43 AM

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