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Old 05-02-2014, 08:02 AM   #16
markk53
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Didn't read it all, but key points for a single shock set up were:

  • less mechanical parts to make a rising rate suspension system.
  • hard to bend a single shock in the center of the bike when you crash on a log or such.
  • One shock to adjust.
  • If hung on the one side with a single side swing arm makes the rear wheel accessible quite easily for road bikes.
As far as travel, there were 12" travel twin shock bikes in the late 70s, so that really isn't the reason.

The thing that is hard for me to comprehend is why it is so much more expensive for a quality single shock over a similar quality twin shock replacement set for a road going bike.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:21 AM   #17
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who needs an engineer for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Didn't read it all, but key points for a single shock set up were:

  • less mechanical parts to make a rising rate suspension system.
  • hard to bend a single shock in the center of the bike when you crash on a log or such.
  • One shock to adjust.
  • If hung on the one side with a single side swing arm makes the rear wheel accessible quite easily for road bikes.
As far as travel, there were 12" travel twin shock bikes in the late 70s, so that really isn't the reason.

The thing that is hard for me to comprehend is why it is so much more expensive for a quality single shock over a similar quality twin shock replacement set for a road going bike.
Twin shock designs are cheap to design, cheap to make. There is an element of cantilevering in a single springleg design that requires more robust parts, right down to the bearings.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:04 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
Twin shock designs are cheap to design, cheap to make. There is an element of cantilevering in a single springleg design that requires more robust parts, right down to the bearings.

Definitely need a serious swingarm and all for single side.

Of course twin shock may be easy, but they still bend if you fall over on something like a rock hard enough - not good.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:39 PM   #19
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adjustability and balance and weight
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Old 05-04-2014, 06:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt hokie View Post
adjustability and balance and weight

Which one?

Seems a shock on each side is as balanced as one in the middle. Most single shocks are as heavy as two single shocks. And adjustability comes with either as well. All the major shock manufacturers make top shelf shocks in either design.

Biggest reasons I see for single shocks would be having it out of harm's way, narrowing the rear of the bike, and one shock to adjust (although sometimes buried in the bike).
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Which one?

Seems a shock on each side is as balanced as one in the middle. Most single shocks are as heavy as two single shocks. And adjustability comes with either as well. All the major shock manufacturers make top shelf shocks in either design.

Biggest reasons I see for single shocks would be having it out of harm's way, narrowing the rear of the bike, and one shock to adjust (although sometimes buried in the bike).
The single shock designs are heavier.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Definitely need a serious swingarm and all for single side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
The single shock designs are heavier.
The BMW monolever swingarm was both lighter and stiffer than the twin shock design it replaced
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
The BMW monolever swingarm was both lighter and stiffer than the twin shock design it replaced
I am enjoying my wrongness because I prefer one sided designs. I suppose it might have to do with the light alloy castings used.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:54 PM   #24
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Bikes were all twin shocks until the '70s. Maico started the long travel trend by moving the twin shocks forward.

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned, but the monoshock design was done by an elementary aged kid. An engineer from yamaha saw the design on the playground and the next year yamaha made the first monoshock based dirt bike from the stolen plans.

The kid ended winning millions of dollars later on in court.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric2 View Post
Bikes were all twin shocks until the '70s. Maico started the long travel trend by moving the twin shocks forward.

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned, but the monoshock design was done by an elementary aged kid. An engineer from yamaha saw the design on the playground and the next year yamaha made the first monoshock based dirt bike from the stolen plans.

The kid ended winning millions of dollars later on in court.
My 1960 scooter has a monoshock swingarm suspension patented around 1951 by Heinkel.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric2 View Post
Bikes were all twin shocks until the '70s. Maico started the long travel trend by moving the twin shocks forward.

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned, but the monoshock design was done by an elementary aged kid. An engineer from yamaha saw the design on the playground and the next year yamaha made the first monoshock based dirt bike from the stolen plans.

The kid ended winning millions of dollars later on in court.
Where did you hear that one?

Vincent beat Yamaha to the underseat monoshock by 30+ years and Flying Merkel, amongst others, had similar systems 30+ years before that.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric2 View Post
Bikes were all twin shocks until the '70s. Maico started the long travel trend by moving the twin shocks forward.

I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned, but the monoshock design was done by an elementary aged kid. An engineer from yamaha saw the design on the playground and the next year yamaha made the first monoshock based dirt bike from the stolen plans.

The kid ended winning millions of dollars later on in court.
The forward mount twin shock was a home brewed modification. Maico just took to it sooner. Roger DeCoster had to cut up his own frame and do it himself, Suzuki engineers wouldn't do it. He had to do it to keep up with the rest.

Tilkiens was the originator of the monoshock set up bought by Yamaha. Not sure where the elementary school kid story came from. Tilkiens son raced CZ and a crash caused by hard bottoming in the rear brought about the change.

By the way, Vincent actually uses TWO shocks under the seat, oddly enough:

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Old 05-06-2014, 09:23 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slartidbartfast View Post
The BMW monolever swingarm was both lighter and stiffer than the twin shock design it replaced
Doesn't mean I was wrong. It is still a serious strong swingarm.

Oddly enough, Ducati used twin arm swingarms on its factory superbikes for a while at least. Lighter and less flex in their case.
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Old 05-07-2014, 02:49 PM   #29
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Interesting question...there's a world of difference between the either system depending if you're considering 'highway' or 'offroad'. I would like to speak to the offroad side of this discussion - First, many of the developments in suspension have been born out of the dirtbike world with single shock rising rate suspensions finally taking over from the twin shock world...for many reasons. While rising rate single shock suspensions are the norm for offroad, I will say that some of the last long travel twin shock setups on some dirtbikes of the '80's (yes, I'm old), were incredible.

Case in point, I have a '80's model Husky with the twin shock configuration...it has the Olins remote res. style shocks with about 13 inches of travel that have been tuned by Scotts Suspensions. The quality and quantity of the suspension travel is incredible...and surprisingly good, even today. It was superior to the single shock rising rate CR500 which replaced it in my barn at that time. Recently, I took the old Husky off-roading with some friends, and one of my buddies wanted to swap bikes for a bit so he could sample a 'vintage bike'. He was shocked (no pun intended) at the suspension, remarking, "This thing is awesome across the desert...it eats everything in sight!...but where's the brakes!!!" The old Husky has a surprisingly competent suspension, even by today's standards...as long as one's not comparing it to the latest in pro level competition machinery.

A good, well tuned twin shock setup is an excellent suspension...my Husky can still cross brutally rough terrain at speed with great control...it's only shortcoming is that it's slightly more 'harsh' due to the fact that it's not a rising rate suspension. While not super plush, it is competent and confidence inspiring, always working with you, and never surprising you. Single shock suspensions rule now, and are tuneable, versatile, and reliable...they rule for good reason, but they are NOT the only way to suspend a rear end of a bike...just my .02 cents...
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:51 PM   #30
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I believe the KaTooMs STILL use linkless rear shocks.
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