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Old 07-09-2014, 05:50 AM   #706
F650Dakar_Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schussboelie View Post
Instead of commenting on forums while not having the bike and thus not being faced with the problem you're commenting on, go buy a GS.
No better way to criticize KTM.
Criticism should be left over to those (owners and riders) actually dealing with the issues.
Already got a BMW F800GS in addition to a KTM 690RFR. An 1190 will be bought next year or so, so I hope the issues are dealt with until then.
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:40 AM   #707
Englishmatt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F650Dakar_Norway View Post
Totally agree. I'm eagerly awaiting a better coordinated factory response on the flawed design issues before committing to an 1190 R purchase, but the inconsistency between international KTM dealerships and importers will simply move people over to the per date seemingly better coordinated international support network of BMW.

I can firsthand describe this difference here in Norway - judged by personal experience from workshop service on my F800GS and 690RFR.
Certain KTM dealerships here in Norway are flatly unqualified and too simpleton dirt-bike-minded to deal with the sheer complexity of the 1190 series.

If US and UK KTM importers don't recognize and proactively adress the airfilter issues - they're in for well deserved customer criticism and loss of market shares in the GS graveltouring segment.
Errr...If thge "Simpletons" are under qualified...then why wouldn't you do your own work? And if you do indeed perform your own work, then why even bother with the simpletons?

I'm not sure about the "sheer complexity" of the 1190 either. I've owned both (currently the 1190, and a 990 before that) and working on a GS is about level 1 mechanics. Working on the 9X0 or now 1190 is maybe level 5. Sure KTM is more involved, but it's not rocket science and can be learned very easily if you have a little time, patience and the desire to wrench a little.

Posts that reference "sheer complexity" imply that folks can't perform basic routine maintenance, when they truly can. You-Tube and the H.O.W is your friend in just about every instance.

Regarding BMW's dealer network, and swiping a statement with a broad global brush is unreasonable...it's all very localized and individual dealer related. You get good and bad dealers all over.

Is there a larger quantity Globally of BMW dealers, maybe, probably...does that mean that MOTTORAD dealers are more qualified....100% NOT!

This forum and it's members are polarizing. We have folks that want to help and teach, others that just want to complain.
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:57 AM   #708
scudrunner82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Englishmatt View Post
Errr...If thge "Simpletons" are under qualified...then why wouldn't you do your own work? And if you do indeed perform your own work, then why even bother with the simpletons?

I'm not sure about the "sheer complexity" of the 1190 either. I've owned both (currently the 1190, and a 990 before that) and working on a GS is about level 1 mechanics. Working on the 9X0 or now 1190 is maybe level 5. Sure KTM is more involved, but it's not rocket science and can be learned very easily if you have a little time, patience and the desire to wrench a little.

Posts that reference "sheer complexity" imply that folks can't perform basic routine maintenance, when they truly can. You-Tube and the H.O.W is your friend in just about every instance.

Regarding BMW's dealer network, and swiping a statement with a broad global brush is unreasonable...it's all very localized and individual dealer related. You get good and bad dealers all over.

Is there a larger quantity Globally of BMW dealers, maybe, probably...does that mean that MOTTORAD dealers are more qualified....100% NOT!

This forum and it's members are polarizing. We have folks that want to help and teach, others that just want to complain.

+1 to the smart Englishman.

I was pretty hesitant to purchase the 1190 at first, due to the sophisticated electronics. Its seems after reading about every post about the 1190 that most of the issues people have are mechanical in nature, not electrical. Most of the wiring and electronics in the bike are Japanese or German made and seem very robust. When you really break it down, there isn't that much more to go wrong on the bike, over any other modern bike with ABS, traction control and EFI, and even if something does break it likely won't be a show stopper. You need to be smart about it when embarking on an "adventure". Not properly preparing the bike and carrying the necessary spares is just foolhardy no matter what bike you choose.

I enjoy working on my bikes, and so far the 1190 is an absolute PLEASURE to wrench on. It was very thoughtfully engineered. Much easier than the Super Tenere I used to have.

Agree 100% as far as dealer network. There is good and bad everywhere no matter what brand you buy. I'm very lucky to have a fantastic dealer just over an hour away. They bend over backwards for anything I might need. If you can't/won't change your own oil, or tighten a nut that gets loose on your bike, you might want to rethink the whole adventure riding thing.
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Old 07-09-2014, 10:00 AM   #709
F650Dakar_Norway
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As mentioned - my statements are firsthand experience based.
I can even document these differences between certain BMW and KTM dealerships. It comes to a point where trust breaks down.

From my viewpoint -based on experience - certain local Norwegian KTM dealerships are underqualified to deal with my upcoming 1190 purchase.
They appear stuck in the motocross/enduro-world and seem not educated or capable to deal with the 1190 series - which requires a totally different mechanic skillset and customer service attitude.

Hushing up the filterbox issue is already a phenomenon from certain dealers here.
Trust must be earned in my book. So far BMW service levels excels in that respect for many of us here in Norway. In comparison certain KTM dealerships appear not that bright or updated.

YMMV, of course.
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F650Dakar_Norway screwed with this post 07-09-2014 at 10:21 AM
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:12 AM   #710
Arreola
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This is getting off topic.
There are good and bad dealers of all brands, if you have a bad dealer is because you choose to go with them in the first place. Even there are some people complaining about a bad dealer and they do not have a 1190 adv.

I place the order for the Unifilter about 3 weeks ago and still waiting for it to arrive.
So far no complaints for the 1190 adv S.


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Old 07-09-2014, 12:20 PM   #711
F650Dakar_Norway
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OK. Here goes the gory details:

So far I've adressed two different 1190R users and asked them if they've been updated or informed about the airfilter issues. One from Sweden and another Norwegian - the latter about to set off on a 3-week vacation down in EU.
Neither of these two had been informed about ANY filterbox or airfilter issues from their respective dealers or workshops.
Both appeared flatly surprised and more or less flabbergasted when I gave them three certain videos documenting that even the 2014 airbox had flaws and needed to be complemented by a UNI kit. They were completely unaware.
This was as late as yesterday - and the Norwegian rider was about to set off on a 3-week vacation - and was not informed about the existence of the UNI kit or the airbox-related dust problems. Go figure.

Both have thanked me, an advrider updated wannabee 1190 R purchaser for updating them on the issue. I feel sorry for them if their engines are dusted, but this IMHO speaks volumes about KTM dealership honesty and update trustworthyness.

When some other commitments are done in July next year I'm up for an 1190R. In the mean time: I'm excited to see if KTM followup has improved here in Norway and Sweden. I'll keep asking upcoming 1190 owners here about their respective updates - or lack thereof. Not all 1190 owners are on facebook or advrider....just saying.
I'm therefore actively planning an 1190 R purchase - which can easily be handled by a Uni kit - but KTM dealership trust needs to be rebuilt after my previous KTM workshop experiences. Time will show and I hope the best.

I'll do my own 1190 wrenching after the warranty period ( oil change, brake maintenance, chain lubing and ditto chores ) , but at present there is not much substance behind claiming all respective 1190 owners here in Scandinavia are well-informed about the airbox issue by their respective dealership agents and workshops.

Yes, there has been issues with BMW's also - but owning a BMW and a KTM I can hands-on observe the differences in workshop attitudes and qualities. The 1190 is way up there in GS league in tech savvy and aims for that market segment.

Main Scandinavian KTM office is in Sweden, while Norway apparently only sports individual dealerships. These appear relatively non-conformed quality-wise ( high workshop mechanics turnover being a symptom ) and differ individually -like in SA and some other countries.

Perspective remains the same; in my book BMW outperforms Norwegian KTM dealerships in quality control and service levels. This simply needs to be evened out in the airbox issue etc.
The 1190 R is still on top of my wanted list and of high priority. It's the darn most good-looking graveltouring device I've seen so far
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F650Dakar_Norway screwed with this post 07-09-2014 at 02:46 PM
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Old 07-10-2014, 09:49 AM   #712
NorthVancpF
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2014 KTM 1190 ADV ST Airbox Inspection

Hmmm... you guys really had me going. After checking this thread daily and hearing about 'dusted engines', 'law suits', 'stripped factory self tapping screws', etc, etc, I felt like I may have a ticking time bomb under my tank, just waiting for me to venture too far from my home so I could be stranded.

Of course, I only have 3k kilometers on my bike, and all of them on the beautiful, pressure washed streets of the Pacific Northwest, still, curiosity got the best of me. So, locked in my garage, where my wife couldn't walk in on me stipping apart a $20k motorcycle, and armed with uTube and the KTM toolkit, I dismantling my dream machine.
[IMG][/IMG]

So... what did I find? Probably what you'd expect on a 4 month old, street driven motorcycle... sweet FA. No dust, no stripped screws, no misaligned filter. Everything was clean, and perfect.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

The filter had stopped a few bugs, some dirt of course.
[IMG][/IMG]

But it was in good shape. I put it back in. The filter locking lever system appears to hold it in place very tightly.
[IMG][/IMG]

There are , as discussed on this forum, small 'gaps' between the screws that hold the airbox lid in place. Mine was not warped or anything, and I'm not sure any dust could find it's way through these gaps. Remember, there is a lip around the entire unit so this is not really an air gap.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Regardless... As I don't plan on doing this again until the filter replacement schedule is due... I took advice from this forum greased the lip, cleaned the surface, and built my own 'duct tape' seal... just in case! : ) Pretty sexy ah?
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

**BTW, I will be selling these 'KTM 1190 AirBox Kits' very soon - patent pending : )

So, I feel sorry for the guys who had had real filtration issues, and I believe it, pictures done lie, but for me, this is the last time I'm concerned about the airbox on mine.

Oh yeah... I love this bike, best one I've owned!
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:00 AM   #713
oldfuddy
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SWEET!!! Could you post your build date of the bike?

how much you want for your air box??? :-)
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:50 AM   #714
XsilverGS
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NorthVancpF, are you not concerned with the way the cable loom runs down the right hand side of the air box and gets crushed between the frame and air box? Or it is on mine which looks similar to yours, towards bottom left hand corner of photo
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:03 AM   #715
NorthVancpF
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Cable loom.

Hi XsilverGS. I know, it's in there very tightly. I tried to move it and it didn't seem to have much play. I'm not concerned, it didn't appear to be damaged in anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XsilverGS View Post
NorthVancpF, are you not concerned with the way the cable loom runs down the right hand side of the air box and gets crushed between the frame and air box? Or it is on mine which looks similar to yours, towards bottom left hand corner of photo
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:08 AM   #716
NorthVancpF
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Hi Fuddy. I think I remember seeing it was manufactured in Nov 2013, but I'll have to check. I picked it up in April 2014.

And no I'm not selling my airbox... I think I have one of the few good ones : )

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldfuddy View Post
SWEET!!! Could you post your build date of the bike?

how much you want for your air box??? :-)
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:42 AM   #717
SKINNY
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I pulled my tank and air box at 400 miles expecting to see the same dust and leaks that others have reported.
Mine was spotless also...
Put my Uni filter in and don't expect any further issues.


[IMG]http://i100
.photobucket.com/albums/m5/seseaton/006_zps708b6e65.jpg[/IMG]










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Old 07-10-2014, 01:39 PM   #718
strider.deano
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthVancpF View Post
[/IMG]

So... what did I find? Probably what you'd expect on a 4 month old, street driven motorcycle... sweet FA. No dust, no stripped screws, no misaligned filter. Everything was clean, and perfect.


The filter had stopped a few bugs, some dirt of course.
[IMG][/IMG]
Nice overview....Great pics.

I installed the Uni at 1250 miles. My airbox looked looked just like yours. I'm sure your tape will eliminate dust intrusion via the lid, but I thought the UNI was needed because the OEM filter didn't seal well inside the airbox, not that the lid wasn't sealing well.
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Old 07-10-2014, 03:00 PM   #719
coloktmGS
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I think these should be referred to a "Starbucks Airboxes" going forward...
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Old 07-10-2014, 03:16 PM   #720
NorthVancpF
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Yeah, I don't know. The filter seemed to be seated quite well, I can't see how dust can get around it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strider.deano View Post
Nice overview....Great pics.

I installed the Uni at 1250 miles. My airbox looked looked just like yours. I'm sure your tape will eliminate dust intrusion via the lid, but I thought the UNI was needed because the OEM filter didn't seal well inside the airbox, not that the lid wasn't sealing well.
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