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Old 05-21-2014, 08:52 AM   #16
uk_mouse
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To answer one question, yes a single fan should keep the temperature at or below 5 bars when idling.

You can test the fan circuit by pulling the plug off the lower right hand corner of the radiator, and shorting out the pins. The fan should come on. If it does, the sensor in the rad is probably faulty. If the fan doesn't work, check obvious things like the fuse! I would disconnect the aftermarket fan to eliminate that from your troubleshooting, you can reconnect it once everything is working ok.
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Old 05-21-2014, 10:01 AM   #17
hotrdd OP
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So just thinking out loud here so correct any items that might be off in my thinking.

I put the bike in the air but didnít really see any air burping out of the system. Also idling in the shop the bike and radiator coolant came up to temperature fast. Iím assuming that since the coolant if hot the system must be circulating the fluids? BUT I never saw or heard the fans kick in so I will check on that sensor first.

While I have the bike apart Iíll also check on the oil filter to see if it looks like it has been in contact with any water.

BUT whatís confusing me is why the bike would be over heating when Iím doing 65-70 mph on the highway and the temperature is only 62F
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:37 AM   #18
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Yeah if the radiator gets hot, the water pump must be working, I would think. So must the thermostat, otherwise hot coolant would not reach the radiator.

If hot coolant is getting to the rad, but the bike is still running hot ... hmm, radiator blocked? But it'd have to be very blocked, like full of mud, for the bike to overheat that much.

You are right in that at 70 mph on a cool day, the temp should be steady at 4 bars.
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:03 PM   #19
hotrdd OP
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I'll wire the fans up tonight or tomorrow night and do the tests again and see what happens. But after seeing how much work it is to get all those covers off I'll be checking a lot more other things while I'm in there.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement so far. A new "to me" bike is always hard to get around the first few times.


Maybe if the fans weren't running the engine heated up in the slower downtown traffic and just never had the chance to cool down again when I was out on the HWY for 1/2 hr.

hotrdd screwed with this post 05-21-2014 at 12:12 PM
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Old 05-21-2014, 02:41 PM   #20
wsmc99
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Have you replaced the CAP YET?

Before you pull anything apart, put a new cap on it and see if it does better.

Your chasing big problems that may not exist.

I thought my head gasket went on mine, nope radiator cap.
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:23 AM   #21
tinwelp
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Impeller?

H2W has likely hit the nail here: have you checked to see the pump impeller is intact, engaged with its shaft correctly and the shaft turns with the engine?

The radiator is getting hot, so your thermostat is OK (or stuck open), but it would still get hot even if your pump was toast through thermo-siphoning. The fan function is not really relevant if you can ride on the highway and still have the bike overheat... a 70mph breeze through the radiator is going to do a better job than any fan that will fit in the available space!

Yes the gauge sensor maybe dud (although unlikely), but if you're losing coolant, it too is not that important. Fix the overheating first then deal with the sensor.

A rising coolant level may just be the coolant expanding... or trapped air expanding. I'm assuming it goes back to its normal level once it cools, or did I miss something? Have you tried to actively force air out of the coolant system? Fill the radiator, leave off the cap and squeeze all the hoses you can get to many times over. Start the engine, and continue to squeeze and release the bottom radiator hose rhythmically until the thermostat opens and the hose becomes hot. Top up the radiator level, replace the cap and the job should be done.

If it were me I'd check the pump first, then refill the system as described above. Keeping the front of the bike high helps, but in my opinion it's not absolutely essential... if you've the option, do it.

Good luck!

Cheers... Paul
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:30 AM   #22
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All good chases here, If it's getting hot at hwy speeds, coolant level solid, i would do the easiest thing first. Flush the system, can't see it being the cap, but that's any easy test low work time.

how's your oil look in the sump pump tank. as it's not loosing or adjusting fluid level in the coolant Rez, doubtful the cap. So many could be's. How long from your last oil and fluid change? Flush your coolant, burp the air, ride it. If it's still happening, change your oil, check your oil filter for water. If it's wrinkled, replace your pump and seals, during oil change tear down. These bikes like movement, to creep into five bars and the fan comes on not a big deal IMO. Replace with blue ice if you have the budget.


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Old 05-22-2014, 09:11 AM   #23
gixxersteph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinwelp View Post
H2W has likely hit the nail here: have you checked to see the pump impeller is intact, engaged with its shaft correctly and the shaft turns with the engine?

The radiator is getting hot, so your thermostat is OK (or stuck open), but it would still get hot even if your pump was toast through thermo-siphoning. The fan function is not really relevant if you can ride on the highway and still have the bike overheat... a 70mph breeze through the radiator is going to do a better job than any fan that will fit in the available space!

Yes the gauge sensor maybe dud (although unlikely), but if you're losing coolant, it too is not that important. Fix the overheating first then deal with the sensor.

A rising coolant level may just be the coolant expanding... or trapped air expanding. I'm assuming it goes back to its normal level once it cools, or did I miss something? Have you tried to actively force air out of the coolant system? Fill the radiator, leave off the cap and squeeze all the hoses you can get to many times over. Start the engine, and continue to squeeze and release the bottom radiator hose rhythmically until the thermostat opens and the hose becomes hot. Top up the radiator level, replace the cap and the job should be done.

If it were me I'd check the pump first, then refill the system as described above. Keeping the front of the bike high helps, but in my opinion it's not absolutely essential... if you've the option, do it.

Good luck!

Cheers... Paul
see my problem - not sure if it's just the impeller or goes deeper.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=15
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:08 AM   #24
hotrdd OP
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Update
So I had an hour last night to go and work on the bike again. First I threw it, (gently laid it down) on its side and checked the oil filter and everything down there looked fine. I picked up a new radiator cap and then I topped up the radiator and let the bike run and noticed the fans did not kick on when it hit 4-5 bars so I ran a jumper wire and the fans kicked in and ran. I then turned off the fans and let the bike come up to six bars and tested the thermostat switch on the radiator again but it still didnít kick the fans on. So right now Iím going to replace the thermostat switch and see if that works a little better. The coolant was definitely HOT, not luke warm but HOT. I also started to run a second set of wires for the fans so that I can run an override switch up on the dash.

A couple of questions

1) What radiator coolant are guys running. Since I have it all apart anyway?
2) If this solved the problem should I still go through the process of looking at the water pump to see what I have? I donít know if itís ever been looked at or replaced.
3) Is there anyone that I can email a couple pictures of the filter too? It looks fine to me with only one wavy line in it but Iíd like to get a second opinion. I donít have a place to post the pictures.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:11 AM   #25
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As much as I hate the fact that Iím missing these riding days I always felt like me and the 950S had sex on the first date. It was awesome but I never really got to know her. Now Iím feeling a whole lot better about spending some time with her and getting to know where things are and what the procedures are.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:44 AM   #26
gixxersteph
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No harm in checking the impeller since you have everything apart
Use a thermostT switch with a lower value than the stock unit - I think there is a cross reference of non LTM parts that work.

I am using Engine Ice. Good reputation
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:14 PM   #27
hotrdd OP
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Haven't been able to find a cross reference for the KTM Thermo switch. Best I found so far is the link below but I'm not sure it even applies. Does anyone else have a possible source or cross reference?

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/966940-ktm-fan-any-way-to-alter-start-temperature/
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:24 PM   #28
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+1 on the Engine Ice. Make sure to get the antifreeze version not jus the coolant.

The good thing about the specialty coolants is most of them have the right blend of protection for a all aluminum engine.. Not all Anti freeze blends do..

Given the small difference per jug.. I use the "good" stuff. I don't crack it open that often.

If your going to play with the water pump make sure you get the o-rings for the feeder pipe.

Have you seen the HOW? http://www.ktm950.info has all the water pump stuff.

I had NO issues with bleeding my 950 when I did the pump, didn't lift it or anything, filled as much as it would take, opened bleeder on pump, let a tiny bit drain out, then just idled on center stand,, and kept filling the rad, give the hoses by the pump and thermostat a squeeze every now and again.and left the cap and the left tank upper bleed screw off till the coolant came up to the radiator cap neck, and let the coolant drain into the catch tank, then I put the cap on and waited till coolant came out the bleeder and closed it. Kept an eye on the gage. And I use a IR thermometer to check the hose and engine temps.
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:37 PM   #29
gixxersteph
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from superduke.net

lower temp. options:

SUZUKI : 17680 50 F1

ECHLIN : FS154
AC DELCO : A1854
STANDARD : TS306
4 SEASONS : 36567
WELLS : SW1888


I have the Standard TS306 installed and the fan comes on 2 bars sooner
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:09 PM   #30
hotrdd OP
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Was going to order this Thermo switch as a replacement but the instant I tried to ship it to Canada it double in price

http://www.advmachines.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=thermo+switch&Search.x=0&Search.y=0

Guess I'm back to looking for something local.
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