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Old 06-25-2014, 06:53 AM   #1
ADVill OP
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Motorcycle exhausts

No, I'm not giving you manufacturers that much for a tin can with some fiber glass in it. Period! Most crap for the 990 is just waaaaay over priced. $200 for a piece of metal to move a kick stand?
I feel better now. Carry on.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:24 AM   #2
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Cool.

Make it all yourself, and post pics of the results.


There's no doubt I'm biased towards those that use their time and expertise to develop products. It's a pain in the ass, beset on all sides by those who would make it even more difficult.

Then, even when the better mousetrap is built, one needs to become an internet marketer to try to sell the product.

Then, if those hurdles are cleared, someone else steps up to knock off the product and sell it for less, without so much as a reach-around to appreciate your hard work.

So you go ahead, make your own stuff. Don't copy the work of others in the process, you design and build something new, different and better.

Go ahead.


I feel better now. Carry on.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:50 AM   #3
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Well you are both right really. But I'm siding more with ADVill. The mark up on some of this stuff is just outright ridiculous. But, we as the consumers feed the beast by voting with our wallets and accepting the lashings.

I get that there is a balance that comes from the cost of manufacturing, supply vs. demand, etc. But I've also seen/known small operations to make good products for a reasonable price and turn plenty of profit.

One could easily argue that if you want to go into business and make a product available, it is your responsibility to find an efficient manner to do so and provide a good value to your customers. You can choose to cater to a smaller percentage of high end consumers to make equal profit with less volume or have more volume and larger customer base. Then there is market value = what the market is willing to pay.

I don't know about you guys, but I hate that I was able to buy a new 450 off the showroom floor in 2009 for $4550 OTD and now the same bike sells for closer to $10,000. The price of everything is going up, but many are taking pay cuts to keep their jobs. It is an ugly economy right now.

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Old 06-25-2014, 10:08 AM   #4
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One could easily argue that if you want to go into business and make a product available, it is your responsibility to find an efficient manner to do so and provide a good value to your customers.


I have to gently and respectfully disagree with this statement. People have no such responsibility whatsoever.

If the product's price exceeds its value, it won't sell. Notable exceptions include items in the catagory of fashion and jewlery- most egregious perhaps are diamonds, which have little actual utilitarian value.

Percieved value, yes. And that's how I make money ; )
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:14 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ADVill View Post
No, I'm not giving you manufacturers that much for a tin can with some fiber glass in it. Period! Most crap for the 990 is just waaaaay over priced. $200 for a piece of metal to move a kick stand?
I feel better now. Carry on.
If you makes you feel any better, I'm bringing my bike in to the dealer for an oil change (to protect the warranty, otherwise I would do it myself) and it's going to cost me $300.

And typing this has not made me feel better but carry on.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:58 AM   #6
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If you makes you feel any better, I'm bringing my bike in to the dealer for an oil change (to protect the warranty, otherwise I would do it myself) and it's going to cost me $300.

And typing this has not made me feel better but carry on.
Don't let them do it to you....remember KTM say's it should take 71 min for a trained KTM mech to perform the first service. If retail on the oil and filter is $80 then your going to be paying $185 per hour for a guy to walk down a check list.

http://www.ktm.com/uploads/tx_downlo...2013_10_EN.pdf
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:16 PM   #7
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Priceless

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Old 06-25-2014, 12:19 PM   #8
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Ah, yes the KLR problem.
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Old 06-25-2014, 01:25 PM   #9
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So you go ahead, make your own stuff. Don't copy the work of others in the process, you design and build something new, different and better.
If one is making stuff for their own personal use and not for resale copy away I say.

I get that a small market makes wider margins necessary to stay in business, but most of this stuff doesn't require much of a, if any, competitive advantage to produce. If a bent piece of bar stock with some holes drilled in it is costing more than a 30 rack of PBR and a tank of gas in R&D something is wrong
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:50 PM   #10
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If one is making stuff for their own personal use and not for resale copy away I say.

I get that a small market makes wider margins necessary to stay in business, but most of this stuff doesn't require much of a, if any, competitive advantage to produce. If a bent piece of bar stock with some holes drilled in it is costing more than a 30 rack of PBR and a tank of gas in R&D something is wrong
Understood, and agreed. But.

I believe inventors deserve a return on their idea, and only they can decide its value. Obviously, they can decide its value is eleventy-billion dollars and nobody is going to buy it.

Further, it it's so simple, why not just make it instead of going online and complaining about it?

Well, because most people don't want to go to the hassle of making it themselves. The above top box is a great example. No way I'd pay $800 for that item. But just because I'm unwilling to do so does not make that item "overpriced" or a "ripoff". That kind of molded item and all the hardware, assembly and liability insurance adds up quickly, and I doubt the margin on that product is huge- maybe lower than 100%, which is minimal for something like that.


I've seen enough behind the scenes of product development and marketing that few, if any, are getting rich on this stuff.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by strider.deano View Post
....remember KTM say's it should take 71 min for a trained KTM mech to perform the first service. If retail on the oil and filter is $80 then your going to be paying $185 per hour for a guy to walk down a check list.

http://www.ktm.com/uploads/tx_downlo...2013_10_EN.pdf
I agree...but what's the alternative?
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:00 PM   #12
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lol - all of the above missing the point, it's the Walmart mentality: "Why should I pay more than I want to pay regardless of what it cost or it's true value?"

Yeah, the things we want to buy are expensive. When weren't they? I've learned to either live with the expense, do without or, as FakeName suggested, I make my own.


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Old 06-25-2014, 07:17 PM   #13
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lol - all of the above missing the point, it's the Walmart mentality: "Why should I pay more than I want to pay regardless of what it cost or it's true value?"

Yeah, the things we want to buy are expensive. When weren't they? I've learned to either live with the expense, do without or, as FakeName suggested, I make my own.


Yes, exactly. I don't fly Emirates either. Some things are worth the asking price even if it is very expensive. Sometimes its better to keep shopping or make my own. The free market has always been this way and I don't believe in socialism price regulation.
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:32 PM   #14
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Yes, exactly. I don't fly Emirates either. Some things are worth the asking price even if it is very expensive. Sometimes its better to keep shopping or make my own. The free market has always been this way and I don't believe in socialism price regulation.
I relish the opportunity to support the KTM adventure parts makers who possess courage, character and integrity. They are the ones who raise the limits of my riding experience and are worth every dollar to me... Some people like to tip... Others don't. But that's just me and wanting to show some support.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:36 PM   #15
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Understood, and agreed. But.

I believe inventors deserve a return on their idea, and only they can decide its value. Obviously, they can decide its value is eleventy-billion dollars and nobody is going to buy it.

Further, it it's so simple, why not just make it instead of going online and complaining about it?

Well, because most people don't want to go to the hassle of making it themselves. The above top box is a great example. No way I'd pay $800 for that item. But just because I'm unwilling to do so does not make that item "overpriced" or a "ripoff". That kind of molded item and all the hardware, assembly and liability insurance adds up quickly, and I doubt the margin on that product is huge- maybe lower than 100%, which is minimal for something like that.


I've seen enough behind the scenes of product development and marketing that few, if any, are getting rich on this stuff.

gotcha! As for me I have enough fab tools and experience to make a total fucking mess out of something fairly simple and im not afraid to do it
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