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Old 09-20-2014, 02:05 AM   #1
Phipsd OP
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What's with SYM and Kymco?

400's are very popular scoots in North America. Suzuki and Yamaha pretty much have the market wrapped up to themselves. Both Kymco and Sym have more modern 400's available worldwide in other markets. The Kymco is somewhat more on the sporty end of the market and the SYM more of a traditional touring 400, although upgraded with better brakes and chassis; than is usual with the older designs.

Why can't we have these newer, upgraded more modern designs from Taiwan instead of the same old, same old from the Japanese? Does anyone else feel the same?
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Old 09-20-2014, 05:07 AM   #2
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Market demand

I don't know why Kymco or SYM are not exporting new maxi scooters to Canada and can only speculate that there is no money for them in that area at this time.

Asia and Europe are the bread and butter for these Taiwanese companies. They have market demand in these continents and they can scale their sales and operations more efficiently. In short, they can make money. They also have well established dealers there who can provide value for money after sales services.

My 2 cents.

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Old 09-20-2014, 05:59 AM   #3
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look alike scooters

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijinrider View Post
I don't know why Kymco or SYM are not exporting new maxi scooters to Canada and can only speculate that there is no money for them in that area at this time.

Asia and Europe are the bread and butter for these Taiwanese companies. They have market demand in these continents and they can scale their sales and operations more efficiently. In short, they can make money. They also have well established dealers there who can provide value for money after sales services.

My 2 cents.
I just got back from Paris and Rome a few days ago. I bet there are far more scooters in Rome than in the entire US, and they are mostly Honda SH 150s or something that looks like one. Big wheel scooters dominate Rome. In Paris there was more variety, but they are everywhere in large numbers, parked in clusters or dodging cars in traffic. The US market is hardly worth their notice.[IMG]IMAG0061 by quest4fire, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 09-20-2014, 08:42 AM   #4
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They don't bring them because they can't sell them. Once you hit those price points and displacement it becomes a competition against cycles.

We are not hard core scooter people here so we get what we get.
That said it seems that kymco,would have been better deserved bringing in a 400-500 cc scoot as opposed the the Myroad 700.

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Old 09-20-2014, 09:43 AM   #5
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It's my understanding that the 400 Burgman is the biggest selling scoot in both Canada and the US. I agree with you about the My Road. The local dealer who is also the distributer has one and it is quite the striking bike; but it is sitting gathering dust.
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Old 09-20-2014, 10:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
I just got back from Paris and Rome a few days ago. I bet there are far more scooters in Rome than in the entire US, and they are mostly Honda SH 150s or something that looks like one. Big wheel scooters dominate Rome. In Paris there was more variety, but they are everywhere in large numbers, parked in clusters or dodging cars in traffic. The US market is hardly worth their notice.[IMG]IMAG0061 by quest4fire, on Flickr[/IMG]
Everyone has to start somewhere. I love my big wheel SYM Citicom but at only 263cc it really is only a niche product. There is a successful dealer who posts on the SYM forum and he has been begging for the 400 since it first came out in Europe and Australia. Instead Alliance is bringing in a 250 SYM road bike which although sharp looking, doesn't appear to be a particular bargain and also has missed the boat because the small bike market has moved to 300cc as the viable minimum.

People still buy Burgmans and Majesty's and they are old bikes.
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Old 09-20-2014, 11:21 AM   #7
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I would love to see the Xciting 400i brought to the U.S. Kymco has my $ if they do. As it is, I also am very frustrated. How is keeping some of the coolest scoters out of the USA going to improve sales in the USA? Also the yamaha T Max scooters.
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Old 09-20-2014, 11:49 AM   #8
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The US/Canada scooter markets are flooded compared to a few years ago with options we never dreamed of. SYM is a tiny brand here, Kymco marginally larger.

Alliance isn't going to bring anything larger in unless it can find a dealer network to push it's products. Having a few committed dealers in California and Florida isn't going to justify a larger model that has to complete with name brand scooters that even with extensive networks don't sell with significant volume....

Atlanta has a metro area of 5.5 million. I've never seen another SYM (of any model) on the road besides my own. If there's no depth of 300cc and smaller scooters here Alliance isn't going to bring anything bigger.
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Old 09-20-2014, 11:59 AM   #9
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Its like Aprilia who have stopped bringing any scooter bigger than 50cc to the US. Never mind that the dealers are begging for the 300s (SR and Sports City). It seems to be an chicken and egg. Manufacturers say there isn't a market but people who want to buy can't find anything to buy. I'm seeing used Sports City 250s selling for within $200 of what they were being sold for two years ago.
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Old 09-20-2014, 12:15 PM   #10
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Yeah which is a darn shame. I wish the newer scarabeo's were available here. I've been really looking into picking up a 2009 Scarabeo 200 as my next scoot, checks all my boxes.


I guess there's just a lot more background costs then I understand when a company wants to sell a vehicle in North America.. advertising, regulations, etc.
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Old 09-20-2014, 12:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tclhb View Post
I would love to see the Xciting 400i brought to the U.S. Kymco has my $ if they do. As it is, I also am very frustrated. How is keeping some of the coolest scoters out of the USA going to improve sales in the USA? Also the yamaha T Max scooters.
This Kymco is a quick scooter. o to 100M for the Yamaha T-Max 530 6.8 sec
For the Kymco 400 7.0 sec
For the Majesty 400 7.4 sec
For the Burgman 400 8.0 sec
For the MaxSYM 400 7.9 sec

Just as a comparison: The GTi 300 which is known to be quick for a scoot, 7.1
And my SYM Citycom 7.3
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Old 09-20-2014, 02:32 PM   #12
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I think there is a sweet spot that's going unfilled, in large part, in the 200cc range. Lots of scoots under 150cc, and plenty 400+. I wish there were more choices from Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki in the 200-250 range.

As far as Sym goes, from what I can gather they are majorly handicapped by perceived (or real) lack of after sale support. I liked some of the Syms I saw, but ultimately bought a Honda PCX150. I live in a major metro area of 2 million plus, and there is one Sym dealer. It's a hole in the wall that might be gone tomorrow. Everything I read online about Sym regarding parts after the sale is negative. I'm not going to drop 2-4 grand on something that is a hassle to keep on the road if something breaks.

A large part of why I bought the Honda was the fact that I have parts and service readily available at a bazillion places in my area.

Kymco is similar but not nearly as bad as Sym. Good machines, but one small dealer in my metro area, and 30 miles across the city from me. Parts and service support are minimal.

If it's this much hassle to get a Sym or Kymco serviced in a city this size, I can only imagine if you live in a smaller city or town.

There is a parallel to this in the automotive world. In large part, the reason Volkswagen succeeded in the USA back in the 50's and 60's while MG, Triumph, Renault, Fiat, etc failed was service and parts. VW had rigid requirements that dealers stock parts on hand to fix the cars on the road. They would have inspectors check your parts inventory. If you failed, they could literally shut you down right there. The other guys, well, you waited a few weeks. Back when VW was an unknown, and they were trying to get people to give their cars a try, they realized that people would not take the leap without knowing that they had support after the sale. Toyota wisely learned from this, and maintained the same emphasis on parts and service availability, while building a better car at the same time. So they eventually dominated even VW.

In my opinion, Sym and Kymco to a lesser extent will never be major players in the USA long term until they get a dealer base of solid dealers, and parts inventories that ensure that owners can get a part they need in a matter of a day or two.

If I thought I had a dealer near me that could have supported my Sym or Kymco anywhere near the level of a Honda or Yamaha or Suzuki dealer, I likely would have bought on of the former's machines. Not even close around here.
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Old 09-20-2014, 03:48 PM   #13
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Fair enough. Personally I haven't found it difficult to keep my bike going at all. There are distributers in the US and Canada and even when there wasn't service manuals were available online and so are parts. In the case of both Kymco and SYM we are talking about companies with worldwide distribution.

It's not like the old days. If you know what you want, parts can easily be ordered and shipped from anywhere. Most consumables can be bought easily in the aftermarket. I need brake rotors for my Citycom. I ordered them from the local dealer. If that wasn't possible I could order them from a US dealer. There is a US dealer on the SYM forum who is doing a good business giving advice and meeting peoples parts needs.

If that wasn't possible the parts can easily be ordered directly from Taiwan. The local Kymco dealer has been doing the service on my bike ( the little that it needs ). He is also the Kymco distributer for Canada and as he told me: " my relatives make a lot of the scooter parts". If necessary, he can get me anything I need.

One thing that I have learned. Taiwan scoots are pretty simple machines. My local Suzuki dealer would be happy to help me with my service If I have the parts.

I'm very impressed with how well designed and made my SYM is. Normal service can be done very quickly without touching bodywork. Bodywork is easily accessible and simple to remove. In 33000 km my valves have never needed adjusting and don't require shims. It's the most reliable and simple to service bike that I have ever owned.
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Old 09-20-2014, 04:28 PM   #14
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Another problem is because 200-400cc scooters are not really in demand, the used market has such good deals its hard to justify buying new.
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Old 09-20-2014, 04:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phipsd View Post
Fair enough. Personally I haven't found it difficult to keep my bike going at all. There are distributers in the US and Canada and even when there wasn't service manuals were available online and so are parts. In the case of both Kymco and SYM we are talking about companies with worldwide distribution.

It's not like the old days. If you know what you want, parts can easily be ordered and shipped from anywhere. Most consumables can be bought easily in the aftermarket. I need brake rotors for my Citycom. I ordered them from the local dealer. If that wasn't possible I could order them from a US dealer. There is a US dealer on the SYM forum who is doing a good business giving advice and meeting peoples parts needs.

If that wasn't possible the parts can easily be ordered directly from Taiwan. The local Kymco dealer has been doing the service on my bike ( the little that it needs ). He is also the Kymco distributer for Canada and as he told me: " my relatives make a lot of the scooter parts". If necessary, he can get me anything I need.

One thing that I have learned. Taiwan scoots are pretty simple machines. My local Suzuki dealer would be happy to help me with my service If I have the parts.

I'm very impressed with how well designed and made my SYM is. Normal service can be done very quickly without touching bodywork. Bodywork is easily accessible and simple to remove. In 33000 km my valves have never needed adjusting and don't require shims. It's the most reliable and simple to service bike that I have ever owned.
Where are you finding online access to parts? I'd be grateful if you would share the places you've found. I wanted to pick up an air filter. Ended up ordering from Spain via EBay. I want to find a belt. eBay is the only place I've found. My right brake lever needs replacing. Have searched high and low and have not found one. If the answer is to contact Ooty's scooters in California so be it. But the idea that there's a readily available parts source is not my experience so far.

I wanted a key blank. My local dealer (the one who has 1 Sym out of 100 scooters of other brands said he would have to order it, and with the minimum order cost I'd be spending close to $50. I found a yamaha blank and had it cut for $3.

I love my SYM, but see tough times ahead if I can't even find basic consumables without going outside the US
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