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Old 02-13-2015, 05:26 AM   #1
Dabears OP
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ABS as a dealbreaker on Scooter decisions?

Maybe it's just me, but it seems over the recent months the discussions on scooters has often focused on availability of ABS as THE key consideration that will render a scooter in/out of a buying decision.

The Tmax, Burgman, Piaggio BV350, Forza, have all received comments either positive or negative if they do/don't offer ABS. In the US we are faced with a much smaller scooter market, so manufacturers typically don't offer lots of colors and feature variations where they might do so in Europe.

I understand ABS. I am not against ABS. My R1200GS has it, and it seems to make sense for the bike's overall purpose (although I have never encountered a situation where it's been necessary). I admit to being puzzled however as to why it's such a big decider for scooters given the cost/weigh/complexity it adds and the general usage I presume most scooters encounter.

Is there a scooter you would absolutely buy if it offered ABS but have otherwise crossed off your short list? What are your thoughts on the merits of ABS versus the downsides? Do you ride in all weather or are you like me a 'fair weather rider'? What's the minimum size scooter that you think ABS is a must have on? 400cc? 200? 50?

There isn't a right/wrong answer to this, so I'm not hoping to argue with anyone. Just trying to understand your thoughts on 'fit for use' and how ABS has factored in to your decisions on scooter purposes.
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Old 02-13-2015, 05:51 AM   #2
AMAC1680
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Obviously I'm on record, ABS or lack there of is not a deal breaker for me.

IMO if it was my choice I'd offer it as an option. I ride in all weather and have for almost 40 years. I've managed to get thru some sticky stops and ABS may or may not have made those stops less "sphincter clenching"....

I ride a lot of miles and first and foremost for me is the fit. That is the only true deal breaker for me. If I love everything else but the fit is bad I must pass. But if all else is good and it just a lack of ABS I'll buy.

So short answer is no not a deal breaker here.

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Old 02-13-2015, 06:19 AM   #3
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It is a deal breaker for me. My sportcity doesn't have ABS but when the time came to add a new ride, it had to have ABS. Such a common safety device that potentially can make a difference on the street.
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:47 AM   #4
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Deal breaker for me too. Once I experienced how effective Abs is in a panic situation, I never wanted to be w/o it. And like most here, I've been riding m/c for well over 40 yrs, 10 of them in enduro, MX, single tracks and observed trials. As such, rapid braking skills come instinctively to me, yet I know ABS can do it better than I can in those near fatal occurences that come out of nowhere (deer, dog, cagers) when my mind is more focused on other pleasures and/or distractions going on during a ride.

Good deals, used or new, w/o ABS isn't a good deal, imo. Too much importance is riding on those two little bitty contact patch areas under the tires to ignore ABS technology. I need all the help I can get.
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:47 AM   #5
cdwise
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ABS isn't an issue for me. If a new scoot whenever I buy one has it either as an option or standard then that's fine. If not and there was a scoot I wanted then I'd buy it anyway.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:09 AM   #6
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Not a deal-breaker for me either way. I have had ABS on a couple motorcycles, only experienced one wet street situation where I know it saved my butt (or at least keeping the road rash off of it). All things being equal, I would prefer to have it. But, on scoots the size we (wife and I) ride, it isn't an option. Not having it wouldn't keep me off a particular bike.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:25 AM   #7
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I tend to lean toward the ABS side on this one. It is a safety thing that I think should be standard. I don't have ABS on my current motorcycle. I don't know if I have even been in a situation where I would have used it. But still I want it if the technology is available, which it is.

I have air bags and ABS in my cars. Hopefully I will never have to use them. Sure is nice knowing they are there the 1 time that I need them.
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:33 AM   #8
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It's not a deal breaker for me. I have owned many bikes over the years but only one had ABS. None of my current bikes have it. I do believe that ABS has it's advantages but it also adds cost, weight and complexity. On a smaller scooter I would actually prefer not to have ABS. If I was looking for a larger scooter such as the new T max, I'd prefer to have it.

I would hate to see ABS mandated as it soon will be in the EU, but I would like to see it as an option on most bikes. I say most bikes because making it an option on something like a small CT-70 Clone or similar tiddler would probably not be realistic.

Part of the reason I bought my Super 8 was due to its low cost and simplicity. If it had ABS, and the extra cost associated with it then that would have been a deal breaker for me.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:11 AM   #9
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Not a deal breaker for me, but I would choose ABS every time, if available.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:57 AM   #10
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I'm with Klaviator in that low cost and simplicity were major factors in my choice, along with light weight.

Those factors, coupled with the 9-12 inch annual rainfall and zero snowfall make ABS a non factor for my particular situation. That being said, if I lived where the roads were slick more often or I were dropping 10k on a high end maxi-scooter I would want it to have ABS.

As a side note, I was a Toyota dealership tech from 1971-2006. Once ABS became common we would get a rash of customers after every rare rain complaining of horrible vibration from the brakes, often on cars they'd had for a year or more. A quick test drive with the customer involving a panic stop at low speed in the back lot would invariably reveal that the "malfunction" was normal ABS operation.
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:03 AM   #11
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Deal breaker only on very expensive luxury scoots like Burgman 650.
Disproportionate on 50cc. EU will mandate ABS for >125cc.
I ride all year, my boss doesn't accept snow / ice as an excuse.
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicethomas View Post
Deal breaker only on very expensive luxury scoots like Burgman 650.
Disproportionate on 50cc. EU will mandate ABS for >125cc.
I ride all year, my boss doesn't accept snow / ice as an excuse.
Makes me wonder if the EU mandate will result in a ripple effect. Could mean a) that since EU buys way more scooters then the Americas perhaps all future Americas bound scooters will therefore come with ABS as a default, b) the high cost of ABS may force some companies to stop making all models available for the EU but still import them sans ABS to the Americas or c) some combination of the above.

It's one thing for safety features that don't cost much to gradually permeate as a standard feature (thinking back to cars: Right side mirrors, delay wipers, day/night mirrors) but also recognize that some motorcycles and scooters still have rear drum brakes. Perhaps a ways to go, eh?
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Old 02-13-2015, 12:29 PM   #13
klaviator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabears View Post
Makes me wonder if the EU mandate will result in a ripple effect. Could mean a) that since EU buys way more scooters then the Americas perhaps all future Americas bound scooters will therefore come with ABS as a default, b) the high cost of ABS may force some companies to stop making all models available for the EU but still import them sans ABS to the Americas or c) some combination of the above.

It's one thing for safety features that don't cost much to gradually permeate as a standard feature (thinking back to cars: Right side mirrors, delay wipers, day/night mirrors) but also recognize that some motorcycles and scooters still have rear drum brakes. Perhaps a ways to go, eh?

That may happen but keep in mind that Asia is also a huge scooter market and I don't see most Asian countries mandating ABS any time soon. I think that whether or not we get ABS will depend on the demand here. From what I am seeing, the majority of today's scooter riders as well as many motorcycle riders want ABS. If the majority of buyers far any given model want ABS then I doubt the companies will continue to offer non ABS models.
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Old 02-13-2015, 04:22 PM   #14
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Dabears - I think it is already happening. The next V7 II Moto Guzzi, for example, available in Euro in 2015, but which will prob. be a 2016 here, will have ABS + TC.

Given the increasing demand, ABS won't cost nearly as much, per unit, when offered either as an option, or standard across all / most of the product line.
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Old 02-13-2015, 07:52 PM   #15
knucklehead90
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When I was looking for something to replace my last ride (2001 full dress Harley) I was simply looking for the best scooter I could for the money spent. When I found my 2008 Burgman the search was over! The Burgman 650 Exec comes standard with ABS - something I wasn't looking for and its the first 2 wheel ride I've ever owned with ABS. While it is nice to have I'd like to think that in 50 years of riding 2 wheelers I learned something about panic braking. I've had a few near-misses! But it is nice to know I'll be able to simply yank on the binders and come to an emergency stop and have steering - and without thinking about how much brake I need to apply.

I've tried the ABS out on gravel - works great - and on wet pavement - also works very well. I haven't tried it on dry pavement but I'm very confident it'll work when the time comes. The pulsing that ABS sends back into the brake system can be felt in the brake levers - you'd swear something was wrong if you didn't know that how ABS works.

If I were shopping for a new ride ABS won't be a deal breaker but I'd certainly consider the ones that have it over those that don't when the time comes to flop down the cash. Anything that helps avoid road rash is a good thing IMO.
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