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Old 07-24-2014, 02:34 PM   #91
dwoodward
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Originally Posted by SxyRdr View Post
Yes, this is still true.
Oregon also. A rider is evaluated from when they are called out, until they stop. If they're shuffling forward in line and fall over (for example), it doesn't count.

If you try to explain every way a student could fail, or not, their heads would be so full of crap that probably won't happen they won't be able to remember what they're supposed to do.
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:37 PM   #92
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i ask them if they understood the instructions that were read to them.
then say something like now swerve to the right, go a little faster...or what ever the issue was.
We are expected to say explicitly how fast- "15 miles per hour". Otherwise, you get what happened last week- an instructor said "a little faster", and they did- but still too slow to score, so they got full points for that exercise (swerve, IIRC) and then failed.
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Old 07-24-2014, 02:50 PM   #93
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We are expected to say explicitly how fast- "15 miles per hour".
The problem here (IMHO) is that this might encourage them to stare at their speedometers when they should be looking up.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:43 PM   #94
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The problem here (IMHO) is that this might encourage them to stare at their speedometers when they should be looking up.
Obviously, you're in CA, and MSF, and I am neither. However.

No matter what you say, there are four possible outcomes.

1) they'll speed up a little, but not enough.
2) They'll speed up enough and make it.
3) They'll speed up enough and not make it.
4) They'll speed up so much they can't make the swerve.

If you say exactly what you need, which in your case is "speed up to 12 to 18 miles per hour", you're covered when they call and complain. If you say "speed up a little", then they have a basis for arguing that they did what you said to do, and their failure is your fault.

This is fresh in my mind because it happened last weekend. My partner told the student to "speed up a little", he did but not speed up enough, and failed the section, which caused him to fail overall.

From the reports I got, he was on the phone complaining before we were done packing up the range.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:52 PM   #95
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Another of students gone whack-a-mole.

I was conducting a retest session, which are done at the end of the day Saturday (typically starting at 4:30pm). One of the riders had been a student in my class the previous weekend, and we were chatting while wating for the rest of the students to show up, during which conversation I mentioned I had been there since 6:30am (class started at 7:30, instructors are inspected to be there an hour early to set up).

When she failed, she called and complained that, since I'd been there over ten hours, I was obviously incapable of properly observing her.

I am empathetic, sympathetic, and polite as a MoFo to anyone who comes on the range as a "student". But I also work very hard to remain professional and reserved. They are not my friends, and I work quite hard to not let them have something they can stab me in the back with later.

Probably that makes me sound like an ass.
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Old 07-24-2014, 05:20 PM   #96
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A smart one at that.!
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Old 07-24-2014, 06:29 PM   #97
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Obviously, you're in CA, and MSF
Not yet.

This weekend we get real (i.e. paying) students.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:53 AM   #98
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you're covered when they call and complain.
I had a student who kept anticipating the quick stop. I kept saying "You are anticipating the stop. Wait until your front tire passes the cue cones."

Sure enough, he went 5 feet too far in the eval. He complained that he did what I said ("waiting longer") and that's what made him take longer to brake.

Then he also decel'd and crossed the boundary in the curve. He argued that he had entered the turn too quickly so therefore, a decel was the safe reaction. Obviously since we told him he was not to decel, we must've wanted him to crash and get hurt.

He took it all the way up the chain to the director of the DMV saying that he demanded those 10 points be removed from his score, therefore allowing him to earn his license (I think he had a 26). The DMV politely told him to take a hike.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:54 AM   #99
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Not yet.

This weekend we get real (i.e. paying) students.

Good luck!

Just relax, manage the range, RTFC, pick the positive, correct the negative, and send them on their way. :)
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:04 AM   #100
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And use the stopwatch. . .. Keeps things moving.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:16 AM   #101
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Not being up on expectations at RPC, I won't offer specific advice, except:

Don't Panic!
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:27 AM   #102
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And use the stopwatch. . .. Keeps things moving.
This ^^^ OMG This^^^^

At my RCP, they hyped on how RTFC and the demo should not take more than 5 mins. Obviously a few exercises will take a little longer to demo because of how extensive the demo is, but that's always my goal. And while they said the times on the cards are a guideline, my RCTs really watched to see you didn't go over time by more than 2 mins. So generally that meant at 5 mins out from ending time, start signalling to your fellow coach that it's time to end the exercise.

I've heard other states use the time on the cards as actual riding time, so the RTFC/demo and debrief are not included unlike here in VA.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:04 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by SxyRdr View Post
This ^^^ OMG This^^^^

At my RCP, they hyped on how RTFC and the demo should not take more than 5 mins.
Heh. Last weekend our RCT pulled the ninja stopwatch trick on me to point out that I took about 2 minutes too long to explain one of the exercises. Mainly because I wasn't R-ing the F-ing C.

Having said that, I think that if you're going to go over time anywhere (at least with the riding), it should be during #2 and #3, since without those foundational skills a rider simply can't ride.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:05 AM   #104
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having said that, i think that if you're going to go over time anywhere (at least with the riding), it should be during #2 and #3, since without those foundational skills a rider simply can't ride.
1-4 imo
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:16 AM   #105
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IMHO, go over in #2 if needed, get speeds up in part 2 of #3.
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