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Old 07-28-2014, 08:26 AM   #181
Xaque
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayW View Post
As one with many warnings (and very few citations) in my past, I believe that LEOs appreciate it when the speeder pulls off at a safe area for both of them, even if he cannot pull over immediately. For example, if the road is narrow with a guard rail, I will put on the flashers to acknowledge that I am being pulled over, then drive on another tenth of a mile or two until there is a wide open area so we can both get well away from traffic. I am unclear as to how far is "too far" in this circumstance, but the principle is sound, I think.

One other burning question for the LEOs here: Is there possible benefit to going to court even if the ticket is warranted? Can it sometimes be reduced or thrown out even if I intend to plead guilty (for example, if the LEO does not show up?)

Any thoughts or comments from those in the know are appreciated.
My first reaction is: "if you deserved the ticket, why would you waste the court, and officer's, time contesting it?"

Realistically if you are otherwise an upstanding citizen, you can throw yourself on the mercy of the court and the magistrate/judge very well may give you a break. (How much or how often depends on the individual judge, their mood, and the temperature of the courts in your jurisdiction.)

To answer the question about showing a concealed carry permit when not carrying: I'd be confused as to why you were showing me that. You have a permit to do something legally... congrats. It's like a library card, if it has nothing to do with why I'm talking to you, I don't care.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:52 AM   #182
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regarding CCP, military ID, and other random things. I personally saw my buddy get out of 3 tickets in one day on the PA and NJ turnpike by showing his current military ID. I personally got out of one ticket not long after receiving my eagle scout because the card was stuck to the back of my DL. the cop saw it, acknowledged that he was as well and it was a tough thing to achieve and sent me on my way. I have handed it to other officers without the same result.

I always produce my CCP even though I hardly (like once in a blue moon) carry. I don't know if its right or wrong but I don't want him running my background and seeing I have it then being pissed that I didn't inform him right away.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:01 AM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxmike View Post
regarding CCP, military ID, and other random things. I personally saw my buddy get out of 3 tickets in one day on the PA and NJ turnpike by showing his current military ID.
Most LEO's are sympathetic to the fact that soldiers on pass or leave have limited time and funds to get from point A to point B, and may have been driving a long distance.

An Army buddy of mine got stopped in Kentucky on the way home at Xmas. He was going over 100mph for a while - it was an early morning. Someone called him in. He got a ticket but plead guilty and was fined the minimum. Never showed up on his record.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:17 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaque View Post
My first reaction is: "if you deserved the ticket, why would you waste the court, and officer's, time contesting it?"

Realistically if you are otherwise an upstanding citizen, you can throw yourself on the mercy of the court and the magistrate/judge very well may give you a break. (How much or how often depends on the individual judge, their mood, and the temperature of the courts in your jurisdiction.)

To answer the question about showing a concealed carry permit when not carrying: I'd be confused as to why you were showing me that. You have a permit to do something legally... congrats. It's like a library card, if it has nothing to do with why I'm talking to you, I don't care.
There are two reasons I would hand the officer my CCW along with my DL:
First, I think it puts them a little at ease seeing some proof that I'm an upstanding person, legally allowed to carry a weapon. (Hell, almost anyone can get a library card) Secondly, it allows them to relieve me of the weapon during our interaction if they choose to, with which I have no problem whatsoever. I'm almost always armed and don't want them to think I was trying to hide the fact.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:21 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garandman View Post
it was an early morning. Someone called him in.
LEO's, do people actually call in stuff like that with any regularity? And do you guys care, if it sounds like some Nancy Grace is calling to let you know the sky is falling?
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:30 AM   #186
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A question for LEOs, a little long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
LEO's, do people actually call in stuff like that with any regularity? And do you guys care, if it sounds like some Nancy Grace is calling to let you know the sky is falling?

Happens all the time. Speeding, reckless, drunk. Have to follow up every call. Not always in a timely manner.

If it's important enough to call the caller should stay with vehicle until the police arrive. Most people just report it anonymously then go their own way.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:38 AM   #187
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I don't call in for speeders [unless they're doing truly ridiculous speeds], but if I'm following a vehicle that's weaving dangerously and I think the driver is drunk and/or texting, I'll call. That driver needs to be nuked before they can hurt someone innocent.

If all drunk drivers crashed and only killed themselves, I wouldn't bother. But if they might take out an innocent family, they need to be off the road, and I'll follow my conscience and call.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:56 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
There are two reasons I would hand the officer my CCW along with my DL:
First, I think it puts them a little at ease seeing some proof that I'm an upstanding person, legally allowed to carry a weapon. (Hell, almost anyone can get a library card) Secondly, it allows them to relieve me of the weapon during our interaction if they choose to, with which I have no problem whatsoever. I'm almost always armed and don't want them to think I was trying to hide the fact.
The only thing that says to me is "hey, I follow the law like I'm expected to (on occasion, just not right now)... and I'm hoping that this will garner me favors."

(This is aside from any legal requirement that they advise law enforcement of their CCW status. And I do appreciate being made aware of it in general, just so I'm not surprised if I catch a glimpse of it... but that can be done verbally. Just handing over the CCW permit without explanation, or while not carrying, I consider poor form.)

Same thing with Military ID or PBA cards... why show this to me other than to expect preferential treatment?

Look, there are a lot of factors that go into my exercise of discretion... I just don't appreciate it when someone thinks their CCW/Military ID/PBA/Library card constitutes some sort of I'm-allowed-to-break-the-law status.

That said, I rarely, if ever, gig someone for trying if they are otherwise a good person... usually just asking "why did you hand me this?" and making them squirm out an answer is enough.

(On a side note: if you are carrying, and you tell me you are, I'll just ask "do you plan on shooting me?" Your answer will have a considerable effect on how our interaction goes from there, but either way, I want your firearm to stay in the holster. I never understood cops who disarm someone who is otherwise legally CCW and not acting funny.)
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Xaque screwed with this post 07-28-2014 at 11:10 AM
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:01 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
LEO's, do people actually call in stuff like that with any regularity? And do you guys care, if it sounds like some Nancy Grace is calling to let you know the sky is falling?
What Oilhed said.

Also, it can be *really* tough to get the person. Most of the time in my area we just can't catch/find the person that is being reported on because of staffing levels, availability, or geography. This is especially true when the caller doesn't stay behind the vehicle and we have to guess and where to go.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:30 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaque View Post
The only thing that says to me is "hey, I follow the law like I'm expected to (on occasion, just not right now)... and I'm hoping that this will garner me favors."

(This is aside from any legal requirement that they advise law enforcement of their CCW status. And I do appreciate being made aware of it in general, just so I'm not surprised if I catch a glimpse of it... but that can be done verbally. Just handing over the CCW permit without explanation, or while not carrying, I consider poor form.)

Same thing with Military ID or PBA cards... why show this to me other than to expect preferential treatment?

Look, there are a lot of factors that go into my exercise of discretion... I just don't appreciate it when someone thinks their CCW/Military ID/PBA/Library card constitutes some sort of I'm-allowed-to-break-the-law status.

That said, I rarely, if ever, gig someone for trying if they are otherwise a good person... usually just asking "why did you hand me this?" and making them squirm out an answer is enough.

(On a side note: if you are carrying, and you tell me you are, I'll just ask "do you plan on shooting me?" Your answer will have a considerable effect on how our interaction goes from there, but either way, I want your firearm to stay in the holster. I never understood cops who disarm someone who is otherwise legally CCW and not acting funny.)
Xaque, I assume you're a LEO. I'm not quite sure to make of your comments, especially if they reflect your actual attitude. I gave three good reasons why I would hand over my CCW permit and you make it sound like I'm looking for favors and trying to get away with breaking the law?? WTF is that about? By the way, I'm 68 years old and have never had a speeding ticket; got a warning once in my 20s while driving a car. I'm not saying I never speed, I do, usually on one of my bikes, but not in a "reckless" way and usually not in town Phx, AZ....Most LEOs I've had interactions with and know personally are very decent guys and I imagine you are as well, but your comments sure don't come off that way.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:17 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
Xaque, I assume you're a LEO. I'm not quite sure to make of your comments, especially if they reflect your actual attitude. I gave three good reasons why I would hand over my CCW permit and you make it sound like I'm looking for favors and trying to get away with breaking the law?? WTF is that about? By the way, I'm 68 years old and have never had a speeding ticket; got a warning once in my 20s while driving a car. I'm not saying I never speed, I do, usually on one of my bikes, but not in a "reckless" way and usually not in town Phx, AZ....Most LEOs I've had interactions with and know personally are very decent guys and I imagine you are as well, but your comments sure don't come off that way.
Sorry! It can be tough to get sentiment across through a forum. My intention was never to seem or come across as snarky or less-than-decent... let's see if I can better explain myself (although we still may not see eye-to-eye on this).

I am LEO, and to me if I stop you for speeding let's say, the only documentation I care to see is a driver's license and vehicle registration, because that is the only documentation relevant to our interaction. Anytime someone hands me additional documentation, unsolicited, either 1) they think I need it but are mistaken or 2) they think the additional information will somehow sway my decision process.

I'm always upfront and state the reason for the stop, and I always ask the driver for their explanation. I give everyone a chance to give their side of the story. If I asked someone why they were speeding they wouldn't say "I was speeding because I'm friends with a cop" (PBA card) or "I was speeding because I'm in the army" (Military ID)... and to me, that's what it feels like when someone just hands over those respective cards along with the other documentation that I actually need.

This is why I ask people *why* they are handing me those extra things... to show how awkward it seems when you say it out loud.

I didn't intend to imply you deserved tickets you didn't get, or you are a bad person... I was just trying to show things from my point of view. (And as I said, if you are actually CCW at the time, that would absolutely be a reason to share those credentials... there was another poster in the thread that mentioned sharing it even when *not* carrying.)

(And frankly, sometimes it can come off as insulting when someone hands me those credentials, the implication being that I lack integrity and don't care about the facts and circumstances of the incident, but rather, can be easily swayed by some information which has no real bearing on the situation at hand... kind of the "don't you know who I am?!" method of defense.)
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:40 PM   #192
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I'm always upfront and state the reason for the stop, and I always ask the driver for their explanation. I give everyone a chance to give their side of the story.
Is there ever an acceptable reason for speeding? except emergencies — "my daughter was taken to the ER, I'm on my way there now."

Because I personally think 10 over on a limited-access interstate is perfectly acceptable, because I guarantee I'm the most un-distracted vehicle operator on the road: no radar detector, no GPS, no satellite radio, no DVD movie for the brats in the back of the minivan, no cell phone, no texting, no passenger to talk with. I'm doing one thing: focusing on the road. I think I should be able to go 80 in a 70.

If I stated that, is that an acceptable reason to speed? My honest opinion: no. But I'm going to do it anyway.
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:01 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by Xaque View Post
Sorry! It can be tough to get sentiment across through a forum. My intention was never to seem or come across as snarky or less-than-decent... let's see if I can better explain myself (although we still may not see eye-to-eye on this).

I am LEO, and to me if I stop you for speeding let's say, the only documentation I care to see is a driver's license and vehicle registration, because that is the only documentation relevant to our interaction. Anytime someone hands me additional documentation, unsolicited, either 1) they think I need it but are mistaken or 2) they think the additional information will somehow sway my decision process.

I'm always upfront and state the reason for the stop, and I always ask the driver for their explanation. I give everyone a chance to give their side of the story. If I asked someone why they were speeding they wouldn't say "I was speeding because I'm friends with a cop" (PBA card) or "I was speeding because I'm in the army" (Military ID)... and to me, that's what it feels like when someone just hands over those respective cards along with the other documentation that I actually need.

This is why I ask people *why* they are handing me those extra things... to show how awkward it seems when you say it out loud.

I didn't intend to imply you deserved tickets you didn't get, or you are a bad person... I was just trying to show things from my point of view. (And as I said, if you are actually CCW at the time, that would absolutely be a reason to share those credentials... there was another poster in the thread that mentioned sharing it even when *not* carrying.)

(And frankly, sometimes it can come off as insulting when someone hands me those credentials, the implication being that I lack integrity and don't care about the facts and circumstances of the incident, but rather, can be easily swayed by some information which has no real bearing on the situation at hand... kind of the "don't you know who I am?!" method of defense.)
Thanks for the time you took to respond, it really is appreciated. I see your points as well. If I'm ever again stopped for speeding, more than likely will be, and the officer asks me "Do you know why I pulled you over?" My response will be: "Because I was exceeding the speed limit, officer"....I don't particularly like bullshit either. If you ever pull me over, unlikely unless you move to AZ, I'm still gonna hand you all my shit! Having said all that, again thanks for taking the time to clarify. Be safe! Con
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:05 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Xaque View Post
Sorry! It can be tough to get sentiment across through a forum. My intention was never to seem or come across as snarky or less-than-decent... let's see if I can better explain myself (although we still may not see eye-to-eye on this).

I am LEO, and to me if I stop you for speeding let's say, the only documentation I care to see is a driver's license and vehicle registration, because that is the only documentation relevant to our interaction. Anytime someone hands me additional documentation, unsolicited, either 1) they think I need it but are mistaken or 2) they think the additional information will somehow sway my decision process.

I'm always upfront and state the reason for the stop, and I always ask the driver for their explanation. I give everyone a chance to give their side of the story. If I asked someone why they were speeding they wouldn't say "I was speeding because I'm friends with a cop" (PBA card) or "I was speeding because I'm in the army" (Military ID)... and to me, that's what it feels like when someone just hands over those respective cards along with the other documentation that I actually need.

This is why I ask people *why* they are handing me those extra things... to show how awkward it seems when you say it out loud.

I didn't intend to imply you deserved tickets you didn't get, or you are a bad person... I was just trying to show things from my point of view. (And as I said, if you are actually CCW at the time, that would absolutely be a reason to share those credentials... there was another poster in the thread that mentioned sharing it even when *not* carrying.)

(And frankly, sometimes it can come off as insulting when someone hands me those credentials, the implication being that I lack integrity and don't care about the facts and circumstances of the incident, but rather, can be easily swayed by some information which has no real bearing on the situation at hand... kind of the "don't you know who I am?!" method of defense.)
I have never handed over my military ID looking for preferential treatment, I did in the past have to relinquish it due to some peculiarities in AZ law; while on active duty my drivers license did not expire regardless of what the date on the card stated. I will always hand over my CCW card if I am carrying, whether I think it has any bearing on the current interaction or not; I do not want it to come up later as to " Why did you not inform me that you were armed?". Again not looking for preferential treatment, just being up front during the entire interaction.
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:09 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Xaque View Post
Sorry! It can be tough to get sentiment across through a forum. My intention was never to seem or come across as snarky or less-than-decent... let's see if I can better explain myself (although we still may not see eye-to-eye on this).

I am LEO, and to me if I stop you for speeding let's say, the only documentation I care to see is a driver's license and vehicle registration, because that is the only documentation relevant to our interaction. Anytime someone hands me additional documentation, unsolicited, either 1) they think I need it but are mistaken or 2) they think the additional information will somehow sway my decision process.

I'm always upfront and state the reason for the stop, and I always ask the driver for their explanation. I give everyone a chance to give their side of the story. If I asked someone why they were speeding they wouldn't say "I was speeding because I'm friends with a cop" (PBA card) or "I was speeding because I'm in the army" (Military ID)... and to me, that's what it feels like when someone just hands over those respective cards along with the other documentation that I actually need.

This is why I ask people *why* they are handing me those extra things... to show how awkward it seems when you say it out loud.

I didn't intend to imply you deserved tickets you didn't get, or you are a bad person... I was just trying to show things from my point of view. (And as I said, if you are actually CCW at the time, that would absolutely be a reason to share those credentials... there was another poster in the thread that mentioned sharing it even when *not* carrying.)

(And frankly, sometimes it can come off as insulting when someone hands me those credentials, the implication being that I lack integrity and don't care about the facts and circumstances of the incident, but rather, can be easily swayed by some information which has no real bearing on the situation at hand... kind of the "don't you know who I am?!" method of defense.)
This is contrary to my reasoning, because I would rather hand you the CCW, then tell you I'm armed...than tell you I'm armed, then hand you the CCW. Or worse, walk back to your car and run my plates or whatever, and find out I have a CCW the hard way, when I was armed the whole time and could have told you up front. Most of us who actually like the police at all would prefer to avoid alarming you with "I got a gun!.....But don't worry I got my paperwork around here somewhere..."

Are you Massachusetts police? I'm surprised you encounter people with a CCW very often at all.
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