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Old 08-03-2014, 07:19 PM   #301
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:48 PM   #302
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I wish that there were more cops like thananthos.

thanks dude.
I appreciate your input.


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Old 08-04-2014, 02:45 PM   #303
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I wish that there were more cops like thananthos.

thanks dude.
I appreciate your input.


Thanks bro.

However, most of the cops I know are very much like me. There is some out there just like any profession, but I hope anyway that it's the exception and not the rule.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:32 PM   #304
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I didn't read thru all this, but re: "us vs. them", see HERE.

People want to BELONG. Many yearn for it, they'll go great lengths to find a group they identify with and will be accepted by... then they pledge themselves to it - often completely. They will literally DIE to defend their ingroup.

The problem with humanity is that once you find an "ingroup", that means - by definition - there is an "outgroup". "Others." "Us vs. them."

This feature of our species explains politics, nationalism, racism, genocide... just hatred in general. We defend our ingroups: family, friends, colleagues, countrymen, those who share our political and religious views, etc. The "thin blue line" is just one of many. It's real, it's natural.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:35 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by steve68steve View Post
I didn't read thru all this, but re: "us vs. them", see HERE.

People want to BELONG. Many yearn for it, they'll go great lengths to find a group they identify with and will be accepted by... then they pledge themselves to it - often completely. They will literally DIE to defend their ingroup.

The problem with humanity is that once you find an "ingroup", that means - by definition - there is an "outgroup". "Others." "Us vs. them."

This feature of our species explains politics, nationalism, racism, genocide... just hatred in general. We defend our ingroups: family, friends, colleagues, countrymen, those who share our political and religious views, etc. The "thin blue line" is just one of many. It's real, it's natural.
Yep.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:58 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by steve68steve View Post
I didn't read thru all this, but re: "us vs. them", see HERE.

People want to BELONG. Many yearn for it, they'll go great lengths to find a group they identify with and will be accepted by... then they pledge themselves to it - often completely. They will literally DIE to defend their ingroup.

The problem with humanity is that once you find an "ingroup", that means - by definition - there is an "outgroup". "Others." "Us vs. them."

This feature of our species explains politics, nationalism, racism, genocide... just hatred in general. We defend our ingroups: family, friends, colleagues, countrymen, those who share our political and religious views, etc. The "thin blue line" is just one of many. It's real, it's natural.
Yet MANY individuals speak out against groupthink in all its forms. Which tells me that it's possible to evolve beyond it.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:15 PM   #307
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Yet MANY individuals speak out against groupthink in all its forms. Which tells me that it's possible to evolve beyond it.

There is always the outlier or anomaly but for the most part,,, yea, that's the way it is. It exists, it's real and regretably, it seems to be the norm. Many? What is "many"? If many a a few percent,,, yea, agree but that's it,,,, a small percentage. It's certainly possible to "evolve" beyond prejudice but as humans,,,, we tend not to due to sometime, real and significant reasons.

Don't think I'm throwing rocks, I do it too but the difference is, when I or other civilians do it to LEO, no biggie. They might get some attitude or someone miht even complain over nothing. When they do it, bad things can happen to people that are innocent. It's human nature to hold a cop's word in higher regard over some John Q. Public's word. Happens every day and for the most part, nothing is being done to change it. Like I said, if anything, things seem to be getting worse. Where years ago, a cop might be made to apologise to someone they crapped on,,,, now that cop's supervisors will back them and refuse to offer an apology simply because that apology can be an admission of wrong doing and they are scared of a huge payout.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:04 PM   #308
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A question for LEOs, a little long.

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Happens every day and for the most part, nothing is being done to change it. Like I said, if anything, things seem to be getting worse. Where years ago, a cop might be made to apologise to someone they crapped on,,,, now that cop's supervisors will back them and refuse to offer an apology simply because that apology can be an admission of wrong doing and they are scared of a huge payout.

I disagree. I've seen plenty of cops get arrested, fired, even thrown in jail. In the old days that never would have happened. As for apologies would you rather have one or thousands of dollars. I've seen that too. A lot is being done to change things. Cop cars have video. Cops wear mics. Some even have personal cameras on their uniforms filming video. You make a complaint they can go to the tape. Cities have introduced civilian review boards to look into this kinda thing. It might not be widespread yet but it's coming. Starting in the cities of the northeast.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:14 PM   #309
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Yep, and citizen copwatch groups are gaining, recording cops and distributing the video.

Hopefully we are on the cusp of something
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:33 PM   #310
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Hopefully these watch groups can help with no-knock search warrants on wrong residences that end with innocent casualties...
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:43 PM   #311
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I disagree. I've seen plenty of cops get arrested, fired, even thrown in jail. In the old days that never would have happened. As for apologies would you rather have one or thousands of dollars. I've seen that too. A lot is being done to change things. Cop cars have video. Cops wear mics. Some even have personal cameras on their uniforms filming video. You make a complaint they can go to the tape. Cities have introduced civilian review boards to look into this kinda thing. It might not be widespread yet but it's coming. Starting in the cities of the northeast.
It's OK to disagree, that's cool. You are right, plenty of cops get arrested, fired and thrown in jail but I firmly believe it because of the reasons you yourself bring up, the abundance of audio and video recording we now have easy, almost instant access to. If it were not for that, I firmly believe there would be a hell of a lot less bad cops getting arrested, fired or thrown in jail.

The cops/municipalities themselves are not having some change of heart for the most part. Matter of fact and as evidence of what I'm saying, why are many municipalities trying to make it illegal to video cops while performing their jobs. The municipalities state that it's for officer safety but honestly, we all know that's a crock. It's because it's derned near the only way to win against a cop. At the point where video evidence is needed, they are looking at huge payouts. Even with the video you have just as much of a chance of not winning as has been proven out time and time again. Just depends on if you can get something going for you. In any event, an apology just ain't gonna happen.

If I had the option of an apology or some minor monetary award,,,,, I'd take the apology as long as it came with a statement that said something to the effect that the officer has been instructed not to do what he did or face disciplinary action and the other officers in that dept. would also receive instruction. That's just me and thats being 100% honest. Now, if you changed that small monetary award to to a much higher number, I might start wavering. Again, just being 100% honest. In any event, it's a moot point because the cops simply will not admit they did anything wrong even to the point of forcing litigation. They would rather it go to court and guarantee a payout if they lose rather than simply admitting they or their guy flubbed up.
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:59 PM   #312
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Hopefully these watch groups can help with no-knock search warrants on wrong residences that end with innocent casualties...

I agree. This is yet another example of the Us vs Them mentality. Over and over again we are hearing about cops that lie to the judge to get the warrant which in of itself is an example Us vs Them since the cops shouldn't have to lie to get one. Then when the no knock warrant goes to crap and innocents are hurt, how often do we hear of the cops planting drugs or weapons in an attempt to justify the warrant.

Are we to believe those cops just happen to have drugs or throw down weapons in their pockets as a legit by-product of doing their job and the opportunity presented itself and that it was pure coincidence that they just happened to have the drugs/weapons when the SHTF. Or,,, most likely,,,,, they carry drugs and throw down weapons as matter of common practice "just in case" something like that happens? More "Us vs Them". If that's the case, how often does it happen to warrant the cops doing that as common practice???? If it's common practice, are we to believe that at least some "good cops" turn a blind eye? I've never heard of a cop turning in another cop for carrying throw down drugs or weapons unless it had to do with an active case and in most of those instances, where they really "good cops" or where they simply trying to cover their butt? Either way, yet more Us vs Them.
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Old 08-05-2014, 01:04 AM   #313
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I agree. This is yet another example of the Us vs Them mentality. Over and over again we are hearing about cops that lie to the judge to get the warrant which in of itself is an example Us vs Them since the cops shouldn't have to lie to get one. Then when the no knock warrant goes to crap and innocents are hurt, how often do we hear of the cops planting drugs or weapons in an attempt to justify the warrant.

Are we to believe those cops just happen to have drugs or throw down weapons in their pockets as a legit by-product of doing their job and the opportunity presented itself and that it was pure coincidence that they just happened to have the drugs/weapons when the SHTF. Or,,, most likely,,,,, they carry drugs and throw down weapons as matter of common practice "just in case" something like that happens? More "Us vs Them". If that's the case, how often does it happen to warrant the cops doing that as common practice???? If it's common practice, are we to believe that at least some "good cops" turn a blind eye? I've never heard of a cop turning in another cop for carrying throw down drugs or weapons unless it had to do with an active case and in most of those instances, where they really "good cops" or where they simply trying to cover their butt? Either way, yet more Us vs Them.
Please take this paranoid bullshit to CSM.
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Old 08-05-2014, 02:51 AM   #314
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Man. Look at all this shit I stirred up. I must be getting a decent education then

RE to the RE to the us vs them, I don't think it implies what you say. It isn't an upfront, ostentatious, 100 to none type of deal. And the overwhelming majority, close to all police officers genuinely want to protect the public.

A brief anecdote:
However, say an officer just came back from arresting a meth head for the third time this year and gets a free drink from the local gas station for having a long day. Some handouts become pretty regular, but their partner refuses to say anything. Now, it may not seem like a big deal, but the owner of those facilities could quite easily blackmail the officer, and it could lead to him/her allowing drugs, violence, theft, or any number of crimes in the future. The partner just put the career of an officer over the potential wellbeing of the public.

I would like to say that some of the things aforementioned in this thread are wrong, but we don't have any conclusive evidence because there haven't been nearly enough studies on policing in the US. Almost none. The only reasonable way to make decisions is from evidence, not beliefs. LET YOUR GOVERNMENT KNOW THAT YOU WANT RESEARCH ON POLICING! The majority of police organizations are local, and are reviewed by the mayor and/or city council. Go talk to them!
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:17 AM   #315
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A question for LEOs, a little long.

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Originally Posted by riverflow View Post

A brief anecdote:
However, say an officer just came back from arresting a meth head for the third time this year and gets a free drink from the local gas station for having a long day. Some handouts become pretty regular, but their partner refuses to say anything. Now, it may not seem like a big deal, but the owner of those facilities could quite easily blackmail the officer, and it could lead to him/her allowing drugs, violence, theft, or any number of crimes in the future. The partner just put the career of an officer over the potential wellbeing of the public.

It is indeed a slippery slope from a coke fountain to a mountain of coke.

Btw, since you mentioned education (guessing you are a student), go take a criminal justice class for fun. There is a ton of research on every aspect of policing from Robert Peel to the modern day. All of those CJ PhDs have to research something, you'd be surprised. A lot of this stuff is discussed in the classes.

Check out http://www.nij.gov They (national institute of justice)publish a lot of research.

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