ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2014, 10:28 AM   #361
390beretta OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Oddometer: 1,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by catweasel67 View Post
Every time I read something like this I really wish the internet also included videos of policemen & women acting professionally and with courtesy whilst executing what is undoubtedly a very difficult job, made all the more difficult in the US by the prevalence of firearms.

What do you think the ratio of good to bad incidents actually is? 1 to 100? 1 t 1000? 1 to 10,000?

Personally my money's on 1 to 100,000, possibly, and probably, it's even higher.

So let us, by all means, highlight corruption and stand up for our civil rights but let us, at the same time, acknowledge that fact that the vast majority of police men and women do a fine and upstanding job.
Now that'd be what I'd call "smart cop watching".


and holy crap! I think I added too much chilli to my fried chicken!
Just couldn't resist a shot at those of us who are legally armed, couldya? Being the informed person you are, you must be aware that most of those fine upstanding professional police officers you cited are fine with armed citizens. You're probably also aware that the crime rate has dropped dramatically in nearly all jurisdictions where the general population has the right to carry a gun legally. Why do you think that is?
__________________
I came into this world kicking, crying and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem leaving the same way.
390beretta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 10:31 AM   #362
PT Rider
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: NW Washington State
Oddometer: 639
Quote:
It is within your constitutionally protected rights to record anybody in public
Ah...photography, including video photography, of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is your constitutional right.
http://www.aclupa.org/issues/policep...deo-and-audio/

Sound recordings are a murkier matter. The police can be recorded in video and audio.
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/201...rd-police.html

Private persons can be audio recorded in some states and not others without consent of everyone involved (and notification without refusal is considered consent).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepho...#United_States
__________________
It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
Henry David Thoreau
PT Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 10:48 AM   #363
catweasel67
Banned
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Vienna, Austria
Oddometer: 8,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxmike View Post
there are some, if you look, you can find them. however just like in the sub forums of this very site you will always find more my bike sucks threads then my bike is perfect threads. shit floats to the top just as much as cream does but the shit gets the attention because it stinks.

I have never felt the need to video a stop and I have never had anything but respect shown to me by a LEO, even the guy who read me the riot act when I was younger was somewhat professional while doing it.

of course I always pull well off the road put my 4 ways on and turn my truck and radio off and have the window down and my paperwork ready when they get to the window. because its the right thing to do and I know I was in the wrong and that's why I am sitting on the side of the road.

but maybe I am an exception because of where I live? that cant be it because I have been stopped in at least 15 states.

and ask the LEO's on this thread, I bet 90% of them don't think "the prevalence of firearms" makes their job more difficult. of course maybe I am wrong since I live in the sticks in a county where almost 70% of the population has a license to carry and yet no murders and very few break-ins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
Just couldn't resist a shot at those of us who are legally armed, couldya? Being the informed person you are, you must be aware that most of those fine upstanding professional police officers you cited are fine with armed citizens. You're probably also aware that the crime rate has dropped dramatically in nearly all jurisdictions where the general population has the right to carry a gun legally. Why do you think that is?
I'd not poke at that particular bear outside of CSM - I was paraphrasing your own supreme court who have assumed it to be dangerous to police. Feel free to google away. I did :)

But my central point remains - for every single act of police stupidity or corruption, there are hundreds of thousands of acts that are enacted professionally and within the boundaries of the law. We'd all do well to remember that before levelling general criticisms at the police - before spouting off on "us and them" and before using words like "recurring phenomenon".

Criticise, but do it in context. You'll get a lot more respect from those whose opinions matter.
catweasel67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 10:52 AM   #364
dmaxmike
former quadtard.
 
dmaxmike's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Close to the groundhog, PA
Oddometer: 734
did you read 4 of the 5 paragraphs of my reply? I am with you 100% but the shit is what always gets posted to the web... "if it bleeds, it leads"

and no shit they have a dangerous job!
__________________
I don't know how to ride a bike...yet
CRF250X
F650 GS Dakar
dmaxmike is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 10:55 AM   #365
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,223
Quote:
Originally Posted by 390beretta View Post
most of those fine upstanding professional police officers you cited are fine with armed citizens.
yep. it is a myth spread by anti-gunners that street cops generally support gun control. in reality, they generally don't. they've seen firsthand what happens to innocent people who are victimized by thugs and are not prepared to defend themselves, and they know that they are likely to be too late to do anything about it (because they cannot be everywhere all the time and violent crime takes only a matter of seconds).

http://www.policeone.com/Gun-Legisla...-perspectives/
__________________
2009 KTM 450 xc-w (plated)
2009 DRZ400s
LittleRedToyota is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 10:56 AM   #366
Human Ills
Useful Idiom
 
Human Ills's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: South (Dog help me) Bay
Oddometer: 22,584
Quote:
Originally Posted by PT Rider View Post
Ah...photography, including video photography, of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is your constitutional right.
http://www.aclupa.org/issues/policep...deo-and-audio/

Sound recordings are a murkier matter. The police can be recorded in video and audio.
http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/201...rd-police.html

Private persons can be audio recorded in some states and not others without consent of everyone involved (and notification without refusal is considered consent).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telepho...#United_States
As far as audio goes, that is an area which also needs to be fleshed out in court. I happen to be of the opinion that if you can hear it in public, you can record it.
But it would be nice to get that set in stone once and for all.

In California, all that is required is disclosure, not consent.
__________________
that guy is in for an awakening from people who will ride all dammed day for a sandwich-eatpasta
Human Ills is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:00 AM   #367
catweasel67
Banned
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Vienna, Austria
Oddometer: 8,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxmike View Post
did you read 4 of the 5 paragraphs of my reply? I am with you 100% but the shit is what always gets posted to the web... "if it bleeds, it leads"

and no shit they have a dangerous job!
I read it, you might be right, you might be wrong. I suspect the risk ramps up, or down, depending on geography.

As for the bleeding, leading thing - yep, I agree 100% but ADV isn't the press and I'd hope we're not representative of the web in general. We are a group of folks who have regular interaction with the police across all continents and it's in our own best interests to maintain perspective and help ensure a good relationship with the police. Especially when we advertise the site on our bikes or helmets.

Put another way, let's keep it real.
catweasel67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:02 AM   #368
Human Ills
Useful Idiom
 
Human Ills's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: South (Dog help me) Bay
Oddometer: 22,584
Yes, please tell us how it should be in our country.
__________________
that guy is in for an awakening from people who will ride all dammed day for a sandwich-eatpasta
Human Ills is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:02 AM   #369
Navy Chief
Beastly Adventurer
 
Navy Chief's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Waynesboro, PA
Oddometer: 1,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Ills View Post
As far as audio goes, that is an area which also needs to be fleshed out in court. I happen to be of the opinion that if you can hear it in public, you can record it.
But it would be nice to get that set in stone once and for all.

In California, all that is required is disclosure, not consent.
Yep should be under the same reasonable expectation of privacy rule that is used for photography and video recording. If you don't want anybody to record it don't say it in public.
Navy Chief is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:11 AM   #370
catweasel67
Banned
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Vienna, Austria
Oddometer: 8,104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Ills View Post
Yes, please tell us how it should be in our country.
So you're saying that I should have what? Been pulled over by a cop in the US to be able to express an opinion? Been ticketed? Visited? Have family in? Ridden in?

Or must I be (or have been?) a citizen of the US in order to talk about the way bikers interact with law enforcement officers? But it's a big republic with 50 sets of laws plus federal, so probably better to be a citizen of a specific state eh? Of course, if you apply that extension of your logic then you're just as big a wanker as I am unless you're from AZ - or did you forget you're part of a republic?

So please, educate me, educate us.

What criteria, exactly, do folks have to meet in order to be able to respond to someone else's question in this international forum?

But here's a thing - how about, if you're talking about a regional only issue, you post in one of the many many regional forums either here on ADV or one of the countless other websites that exist only to serve the USA. How about you appreciate that if you are posting in an international forum you're gonna hear from folks outside of your country.

You dickhead.
catweasel67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:12 AM   #371
Human Ills
Useful Idiom
 
Human Ills's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: South (Dog help me) Bay
Oddometer: 22,584
ZZzzzzzzzzzx
__________________
that guy is in for an awakening from people who will ride all dammed day for a sandwich-eatpasta
Human Ills is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:23 AM   #372
gpounce
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Baltimore, MD
Oddometer: 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanantos View Post
I've heard crazy things about how this works in other areas, but all I can do is speak to what I know....how it works here.

And that is that the officer decides what happens with the ticket, not the prosecutor. No prosecutor around here would ever drop a ticket or even lessen the offense without the officers permission.

So you can hire a lawyer. I wouldn't ever tell anyone not to, but I've also never seen an instance where it helped the person.

My advice would be to try to find someone in your area who has been through it already.

Our deal was to admit guilt, DA got some hours of community service, child protective service got to throw their weight around and we were done. With that deal on the table vs going to the mat with no telling what the judge's agenda was going to be it let us get out of there and conclude the story. Lesson I learned? Stay away from the cops...

OTOH there was serious traffic stuff in the room with us- license suspension sorts of things in the crowd too- all going up before the DA and judge with no representation at all- basically at the mercy of the court I guess. For something serious no question I'd at least consult w/ a lawyer to find out my odds.
__________________
'02 Bandit 1200S
gpounce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 11:49 AM   #373
vecchio Lupo
Diplomatico Di Moto
 
vecchio Lupo's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Washington D.C. Metro Area
Oddometer: 445
Done

While I believe the OP's question has been answered in detail, I feel the need to add the following.

I was stopped by the Polizei in Austria back in 2009, it was one of those times where everybody comes to a screeching halt and nobody is touched, but OMG things were close. It was my fault, and my buddy got off his bike and went all "American" on the motorist that was so close I could touch his hood. The Cops (In Austria) we're very calm and professional, they agreed that all drivers were at some fault but I was the real problem. It ended well and everybody shook hands.

I was stopped for speeding in Switzerland in 1999, what a circus, it almost ended with me in a Swiss jail, but cooler heads prevailed, and the Swiss cops were very cool once you got past all the "Swissiness".

I even got hassled by the Garda in Ireland(2008) and the Gendarmes in France(2009). Both times ended well and hats off to the way both handled themselves, and yes I was the problem both times. In my travels I have found that Cops are Cops no matter where they serve, but the Europeans are jealous of our big powerful patrol cruisers and the fact we don't get in trouble for pulling our sidearm like they do. On the other hand, they are very quick with the Rosewood and it seems to solve small problems and send them on their way.

Good luck everybody and just act normal, if you are looking for confrontation, you will find it quite easily.
__________________
Vecchio Lupo

Moto Guzzi, going out of business since 1921
"Remember, Italian motorcycles are like Italian women, sometimes they stab you for no reason."
vecchio Lupo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 12:20 PM   #374
Thanantos
Ride hard.
 
Thanantos's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Michigan
Oddometer: 3,606
I think this thread has run it's course or at least I've come to the point where I feel I've contributed what I can constructively.

Thanks for the thread and to those of you who also contributed in some constructive manner.

Regarding the others, I'm honestly surprised how well this went.

Thanks all. See you around.
__________________
1999 DR350SE

2013 V-Strom
Thanantos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2014, 12:43 PM   #375
aldend123
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Location: Bristol County MA
Oddometer: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by vecchio Lupo View Post
I was stopped for speeding in Switzerland in 1999, what a circus, it almost ended with me in a Swiss jail, but cooler heads prevailed, and the Swiss cops were very cool once you got past all the "Swissiness".
Are stops, and the priorities of the officers, similar in the US as they are in Europe? I realize that's a very broad question. I guess are they even in the same ballpark or is it wildly different? You're a US officer right? How'd things compare? And how's someone I assume knows how to act during a stop, almost get arrested for speeding?

Side question: How does one go all 'American'? Is there where despite possibly being in the wrong, we still get irate and have a tantrum?
__________________
Flawless rider with a perfect history. Never made a mistake. Even all those times I did, I meant to do it.
2002 Aprilia Futura | 1986 Kawasaki GPz900R
aldend123 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014