ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-21-2014, 09:16 AM   #1
hardtarge OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Minnesota YEAAAA
Oddometer: 41
Nail and shredded front tube???

Going along highway speed and front bars start to shake bad. Drifted left over the center lane. Then convinced the bike back to the shoulder went through the ditch and into the corn field. . . .


why would the tire deflate so rapidly? Yes huge hole in the tube. . .

Poor tubes from the factory?

Damage? Tire tube. 2 bike lengths of corn. . . Loss of personal Mojo. . .

Lessons?? Need more tools and spare parts. I guess this is crap learned prior to 500 mile break in service.
Attached Images
 
hardtarge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 09:24 AM   #2
SloMo228
World Class Cheapass
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: SE Michigan
Oddometer: 1,698
That is one of the big drawbacks of tube-type tires. They're basically just thin balloons inside the tire, and like a balloon, when they get punctured, they tend to pop and lose all of their air in a very short time.

Losing pressure in the front tire at highway speeds is no joke, you did well to ride it out without crashing. Unfortunately, there's not really all that much you can do about punctures like you had there, it's very hard to see a nail in the road when you're riding along at 70+ MPH.

It's bad luck that you got a flat, but you had great luck in not coming off the bike and being badly hurt.
__________________
--------------------------- Steve----------------------------------------
'93 GL1500 frankenbike basketcase in progress
'96 DR350SE
SloMo228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 08:27 PM   #3
hardtarge OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Minnesota YEAAAA
Oddometer: 41
Would a tubliss tube. Help in a situation like this??

Trip into the corn was first time off the pavement for me...
hardtarge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 09:10 PM   #4
DesertTortoise
Freedom Fighter
 
DesertTortoise's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 150
Nail and shredded front tube???

Tubliss isn't rated for road use if that matters to you. It has a bike tube at 100+psi which basically seals it and makes it like a tubeless tire + rim lock. You can still get a flat tho, it can just keep running on the flat without tearing the tire off. It's really made to run low psi off road that would destroy a normal tube.

Glad you kept it upright :)

DesertTortoise screwed with this post 07-21-2014 at 09:17 PM
DesertTortoise is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2014, 11:44 PM   #5
folknride
Old Adventurer
 
folknride's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Alberta, Canada
Oddometer: 662
RideOn

Well, sometimes I sound like a salesman for this stuff - RideOn - (I'm not), but I'm pretty sure this time it saved me some real unpleasantness. I use it in my tubes, and as you can tell from that nice worn down nail head, it took quite a while for this tire to deflate. Pretty sure I picked it up in a a rancher's yard where we stayed, and rode 30 or so miles of twisty pave and gravel before it gently went flat.
I'm a fan



(buy the kind that says "for tubes" on it)

But I'm glad you didn't crash - that would scare the crap out of me!
folknride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 04:13 AM   #6
JohnCW
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 1,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardtarge View Post
Lessons?? Need more tools and spare parts. I guess this is crap learned prior to 500 mile break in service.
With tubed tires I always carry a can of this stuff on the bike. Haven't had to use it yet, but used a similar product a number of years ago and it worked well enough to get me home. I'll work as long as the tube hasn't completely ruptured. Just be prepared to spent the next 3 weeks scraping the latex of your wheel and bike as it goes everywhere as you ride along till it sets up.

JohnCW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 07:52 PM   #7
just jeff
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2012
Location: LacLaBiche Alberta Canada
Oddometer: 790
Regarding sudden tube failures due to nails....The synthetic rubber tubes commonly available today tend to run/split when punctured and don't take to patching well. I look for and use natural rubber tubes which don't display these bad traits. As far as the Tubliss system....Still no 17" size available to fit the rear of the KLR. I believe a nail through the tire could puncture the Tubliss inner tube causing a sudden loss of pressure as well. My last flat on a gravel road at 60mph. No controll issues other than a slight squirrley feeling. Rode it home slow to save the tire. Tube had the valve stem torn out after going flat. One inch tear in tube at site of screw. Think Tubliss would have survived here? OR a Tubeless tire? 3/4 hr later and a new tube it was going again.

Screw in through the tread and out the sidewall of a MOTOZ Tractionator on my KTM690


__________________
ErikMotoMan: "People struggle with many things in their lives. But the answer to struggle isn’t MORE struggle. It’s peace. If you want more joy, peace, love, happiness… you have to GIVE those things first. You have to THINK those things. You have to have faith that they’ll come to you, despite what you may see. The truth isn’t in what you see with your eyes. It’s what you feel in your heart."
just jeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2014, 08:42 PM   #8
DesertTortoise
Freedom Fighter
 
DesertTortoise's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 150
Nail and shredded front tube???

Quote:
Originally Posted by just jeff View Post

Think Tubliss would have survived here?

The Tubliss inner tube probably would have survived that one... You'd still have a hole in the sidewall and need a new tire tho instead of a new tube
DesertTortoise is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 04:27 AM   #9
foxtrapper
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2011
Oddometer: 737
Cheap tubes tend to rupture when punctured. Quality tubes, which are quite a bit more expensive, simply puncture. The differences I see between them are the cheaper tubes are thinner walled, more plasticy vs rubbery, and tend to be smaller and therefore further stretched upon inflation. I see this in everything from bicycles to farm equipment and motorcycles. Cheap tube look like they've shattered when punctured, expensive quality tubes have a repairable hole.
foxtrapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 07:14 AM   #10
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,154
Here's a thought based on what I saw once at a bike shop where I worked...

The mechanic (not a technician, a real mechanic ) was putting a tire on the front wheel of a CB500. Broke the tire down... no tube!

Someone had wrapped the rim with duct tape and put in a tubeless tire valve and mounted a tubeless tire (most are tubeless now, thank the GS and other tubeless adventure bikes). The damn thing actually sealed up!

Now I'm not saying to do this, but the thought is to run a tubeless type tire, which has an air tight membrane inside that make it air tight, and duct tape the rim in place of the rim strip before mounting the tire. Most rims now have a good bead seat like most tubeless rim profiles. Now odds are the only place air can escape is the valve area and whatever hole is in the tire.

That would stop any rapid leakage at any spoke holes. Maybe gives more time to get off the road when there is a puncture.

No guarantees, but if it works, it's worth it.

Don't be concerned running a tube in a tubeless tire. It's common practice and most manufacturers will tell you it reduces the speed rating by one level. Not many will be running around at triple digits for miles at a time on roads.
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 02:58 PM   #11
scottrnelson
Team Orange
 
scottrnelson's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Folsom, CA
Oddometer: 1,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
No guarantees, but if it works, it's worth it.
And if it doesn't work, you've only wasted a few hours.

Most tube-type rims that I've dealt with aren't designed to hold the bead tightly in place to get the seal that you need for a tubeless tire. I would be surprised if any of them held air for very long, assuming no air leaked out through the spokes.
__________________
__Scott R. Nelson, 2008 KTM 990 Adventure, 2001 Honda XR650L, Folsom, CA
scottrnelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 08:03 PM   #12
hardtarge OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Minnesota YEAAAA
Oddometer: 41
Well changed the tube I was surprised.

Hole is about 1/8 in ? Maybe twice the size of the nail Name:  uploadfromtaptalk1406167299251.jpg
Views: 209
Size:  14.3 KB

My personal mojo maybe restored ride on or slime may have helped?
hardtarge is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 08:15 PM   #13
T
®
 
T's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2007
Location: DE
Oddometer: 5,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by markk53 View Post
Here's a thought based on what I saw once at a bike shop where I worked...

The mechanic (not a technician, a real mechanic ) was putting a tire on the front wheel of a CB500. Broke the tire down... no tube!

Someone had wrapped the rim with duct tape and put in a tubeless tire valve and mounted a tubeless tire (most are tubeless now, thank the GS and other tubeless adventure bikes). The damn thing actually sealed up!

Now I'm not saying to do this, but the thought is to run a tubeless type tire, which has an air tight membrane inside that make it air tight, and duct tape the rim in place of the rim strip before mounting the tire. Most rims now have a good bead seat like most tubeless rim profiles. Now odds are the only place air can escape is the valve area and whatever hole is in the tire.

That would stop any rapid leakage at any spoke holes. Maybe gives more time to get off the road when there is a puncture.

No guarantees, but if it works, it's worth it.

Don't be concerned running a tube in a tubeless tire. It's common practice and most manufacturers will tell you it reduces the speed rating by one level. Not many will be running around at triple digits for miles at a time on roads.
I've sealed spokes on rims before and I'm a believer in this. And use a rubber washer at the valve hole.
__________________
Inconsequential Adventurer
T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2014, 09:09 PM   #14
BeMeUp
neverlost
 
BeMeUp's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: East Bay Area, Got Twisty's?
Oddometer: 82
Wicked Balls

Two words "Tire Balls" jusGOOGLEit. You can run with a hand full of nails in your tire. They're pricey but most front wheel flats at highway speeds don't end cheaply......... as did this one Glad you you only plowed a bit of corn.
__________________
Lost is relatively geographic!
BeMeUp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 08:41 AM   #15
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrnelson View Post
And if it doesn't work, you've only wasted a few hours.

Most tube-type rims that I've dealt with aren't designed to hold the bead tightly in place to get the seal that you need for a tubeless tire. I would be surprised if any of them held air for very long, assuming no air leaked out through the spokes.

Just how long does it take you to run a couple of passes of duct tape around the inside of a rim?

It was common practice years ago. Oddly enough, Motion Pro makes rim strip tape. Some enduro and other sites still point out the tape works in place of a rim strip and odds are it won't break on the trail if a flat has to be fixed. I guess it's a personal choice.

As far as the tire/rim holding air - Like I said, hard as it was to believe, I saw that CB500 front rim and it was holding air when it came in. Obviously it went out with a tube in there.

I make no recommendations to run without a tube, just mentioning that the tape will seal the spoke holes up for sure. Less places for air to leak. It may be worth doing just for the chance that it will help.
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014