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Old 07-31-2014, 01:55 PM   #121
sdmichael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navy Chief View Post
No, removing the guidelines will not hurt you. However when the twit that threw a fit about them existing to begin with starts lobbying to have laws written to outlaw it, then it will hurt. You were better off when there were written guidelines to point to
Or... we were better off before the guidelines were in place. Pointing out that it isn't a law and the guidelines were for an "underground" law made matters worse. Somehow we have managed for decades without these guidelines and it is still legal to split lanes. So now, instead of it being ignored by the legislature and being accepted by the police, now it is brought to the eye to the legislature as a potential problem. With any luck though, they will create a law for it and keep the practice going.
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:10 PM   #122
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It is not an underground law.

There is no law against it, therefore it is legal.

This is not a "Everything permitted is compulsory" totalitarian state.
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Old 07-31-2014, 02:15 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Rgconner View Post
It is not an underground law.

There is no law against it, therefore it is legal.

This is not a "Everything permitted is compulsory" totalitarian state.
I put underground in quotes for a reason. Most everything about driving is in the vehicle code. Lane splitting (or whatever term is also used) is not in there. While not everything needs to be, there are certain things that really should - like lane splitting. There is no law against it, nor is there a law for it. At that point, there really isn't anything stopping the police from calling it reckless driving (or whatever they would like to apply). Putting it into the vehicle code, with whatever rules they want to apply, would be far better for all of us than not having it. After all, with an actual law in place, other states could also use that and make it legal there.

You are right though, not everything has to be codified. Driving while on a cell phone should have been an obvious bad action, instead it had to be put into law not to do it. Call it "nanny state" if you will, but sometimes the people can't regulate themselves properly.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:09 PM   #124
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The major difference there is scientific data saying phone use is dangerous, and lane splitting is not.

That there is a law banning one and not specifically allowing the other is remiss, but not critical to the legality of lanesharing/splitting.
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Old 07-31-2014, 03:23 PM   #125
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The major difference there is scientific data saying phone use is dangerous, and lane splitting is not.

That there is a law banning one and not specifically allowing the other is remiss, but not critical to the legality of lanesharing/splitting.
Not the point. It should have been obvious to people to NOT use the phone while driving, regardless of its legality. Sadly, a law had to be created to specifically tell people that it was bad and to not do it. Additionally, most of the other states have it codified specifically AGAINST lane splitting. This whole "grey area" crap really should go away and be set into the law. If it is such an accepted practice, even by law enforcement, then perhaps it would be a good idea to put it into law. I'd rather have a law to point to, than a lack of one, should the need arise. A law would actually provide more protection for the practice as well. As I stated before, doing so would be a benefit to others in other states.
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Old 07-31-2014, 04:18 PM   #126
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Yeah, you are still not getting that we don't need a law to do it.

Nor will it ever happen, less than 1% of Californians ride.
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:03 PM   #127
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I know this thread has moved on to other heated arguments, but I just wanted to add this....

I started my yearly week long trip this year by driving through Chicago on the Dan Ryan.

It was classic, highway backup 5mph, stop, 5mph, stop, 5mph, stop.....rinse and repeat for an hour.

I SO wished I was in CA where I could just put it in 2nd and cruise between all those stopped cars. This was true if for no other reasons than to give my aching left hand and forearm a break and get some wind flowing through my jacket since it was 85 degrees that day.

Sadly, I doubt the awesomeness of lane splitting will ever extend outside of it's current bounds.
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Old 08-01-2014, 03:34 AM   #128
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Dunno if this has been posted, but the AMA has released an official statement:

http://americanmotorcyclist.com/Righ...Splitting.aspx

As well as a petition to have the guidelines put back:

https://cqrcengage.com/amacycle/app/...gementId=55066
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:17 PM   #129
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...there really isn't anything stopping the police from calling it reckless driving (or whatever they would like to apply).
That is kind of the point. Done wrong, it can be reckless. Reckless driving is very subjective, and up to the officer's discretion. Having some guidelines helps those without enough experience (or common sense) get an idea of how to do it safely.

It is sort of like scanning your mirrors while driving. I doubt there is a vehicle code that says how often you must look in a given mirror, but the driver's handbook advises us to do it "continuously".
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:07 PM   #130
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The guidelines are just that: guidelines.

If an officer says you were being reckless, you get a ticket. Quoting the guidelines and showing you were doing it according to the guidelines is going to be seen as "barrack lawyer-ing" and likely not going to do anything for you.

One, they have no force of law.

Two, even if they did, the officer can always cite you, let the judge sort it out.

Would I like a law? Not really.

For one, it would have about as much chance as California electing a Libertarian Governor... who would point out we need less laws, not more.

And two, it might give a non-libertarian Governor the idea that maybe they missed a spot, and write a law banning it.
Public opinion would back that law.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:53 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Thanantos View Post
I know this thread has moved on to other heated arguments, but I just wanted to add this....

I started my yearly week long trip this year by driving through Chicago on the Dan Ryan.

It was classic, highway backup 5mph, stop, 5mph, stop, 5mph, stop.....rinse and repeat for an hour.

I SO wished I was in CA where I could just put it in 2nd and cruise between all those stopped cars.
im sorry



been there - right outside Seattle. 1150GS two up and loaded for a trip starts to overheat so shut her down and pull onto the shoulder. A cop pulls up and asks us what we're doing - bike is overheating - why - cant lane split - well you need to get moving - cant, not allowed to lane split - well you need to get moving - cant, not allowed to lane split. This went on until the bike was sufficiently cool....

seems completely ridiculous when there all that extra space, right? I do it every single day
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:43 PM   #132
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im sorry



been there - right outside Seattle. 1150GS two up and loaded for a trip starts to overheat so shut her down and pull onto the shoulder. A cop pulls up and asks us what we're doing - bike is overheating - why - cant lane split - well you need to get moving - cant, not allowed to lane split - well you need to get moving - cant, not allowed to lane split. This went on until the bike was sufficiently cool....

seems completely ridiculous when there all that extra space, right? I do it every single day
Must not have been a motor officer. At least you would have caught some sympathy.
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Old 08-04-2014, 04:23 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Rgconner View Post
The guidelines are just that: guidelines.

If an officer says you were being reckless, you get a ticket. Quoting the guidelines and showing you were doing it according to the guidelines is going to be seen as "barrack lawyer-ing" and likely not going to do anything for you.

One, they have no force of law.

Two, even if they did, the officer can always cite you, let the judge sort it out.

Would I like a law? Not really.

For one, it would have about as much chance as California electing a Libertarian Governor... who would point out we need less laws, not more.

And two, it might give a non-libertarian Governor the idea that maybe they missed a spot, and write a law banning it.
Public opinion would back that law.
Hence why having a law stating it is legal would be in our favor. Having "guidelines" only has no legal standing. You follow laws, not guidelines. Not having it a law makes it far easier to close that gaping loophole and ruining it for all. Having a law makes it easier to expand the practice in other states as they would have an example to follow. It also gives us something LEGAL and DEFINITE to point to, should there be an issue. This whole "lack of a law" BS needs to end. Yes, not everything must be defined and codified. This is one thing that really should be. After all, if there was a LAW backing these guidelines, there wouldn't have been an issue to have them removed.
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:59 PM   #134
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Must not have been a motor officer. At least you would have caught some sympathy.
yeah..... he wasnt that nice of a guy. I have a feeling he didnt like the look of my CA plate....

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Old 08-04-2014, 08:34 PM   #135
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Hence why having a law stating it is legal would be in our favor. Having "guidelines" only has no legal standing. You follow laws, not guidelines. Not having it a law makes it far easier to close that gaping loophole and ruining it for all. Having a law makes it easier to expand the practice in other states as they would have an example to follow. It also gives us something LEGAL and DEFINITE to point to, should there be an issue. This whole "lack of a law" BS needs to end. Yes, not everything must be defined and codified. This is one thing that really should be. After all, if there was a LAW backing these guidelines, there wouldn't have been an issue to have them removed.
You read all that and missed the last two lines.

Congrats.
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