ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-15-2014, 12:51 PM   #1
TarTripper OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2014
Location: Cotswolds, England
Oddometer: 72
Stupid, stupid ,stupid near fatal mistake

Day before yesterday I nearly killed myself and another rider. In the end we just avoided a head-on, each going on his way without stopping.

I was engaged in a series of very nice twisties on a fairly deserted Scottish road. We had been riding for about an hour and I really felt 'in the groove'.

I probably relaxed concentration for a moment because I went into the next left hand bend just a wee bit too fast.

Almost as soon as I realised I was was too fast another bike appeared going the other way. His track through the turn was close the centreline. The danger was imminent and extreme. At this point I committed just about every newbie error including braking and looking at the oncoming bike. We missed but only by about 2 ft.

I have done track days and I know enough to know that I should have fixed my gaze hard into the turn and leaned more. Now here's the thing. I am sure that if another bike had not been approaching, this is exactly what I would have done.

But the bike represented a huge threat and so I target fixated on it. I hadn't thought about this before but the natural human response when detecting a threat is to fix attention on it. It is very unnatural to look away from danger.

Of course you don't get to practice overriding this natural instinct on a track day. Unless you want to try going round the track the wrong way!
__________________
I don't have a deep and meaningful quote because I'm shallow
TarTripper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 12:58 PM   #2
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,376
Those are the risks you take if you over ride your sight lines.
Its fun, but you are risking your life and limb.
And in this case, maybe someone else's.
NJ-Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 01:58 PM   #3
sparkymcgee
Gnarly Adventurer
 
sparkymcgee's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Southern California
Oddometer: 335
Glad you got lucky there.

I'm not sure I could have done any better. Its one of those panic reactions that you never notice when there is no danger.

I'm trying to really focus on only pushing my limit on turns that I know really well and where I have a clear line of sight. My goal is to get comfortable scraping peg feelers so the extreme lean becomes second nature.
__________________
2008 VFR800
2012 Super Ténéré
sparkymcgee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:16 PM   #4
Schtum
Free Genie
 
Schtum's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Howe of Fife, Scotland.
Oddometer: 1,969
I'm glad it wasn't me coming the other way. Look where you want to go. It really is that simple.
Schtum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:49 PM   #5
R0CKETMAN
Adventurer
 
R0CKETMAN's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: NGAMTNS
Oddometer: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schtum View Post
I'm glad it wasn't me coming the other way. Look where you want to go. It really is that simple.
I'll take it a step further and say over compensate looking where you want to go on occasion where appropriate.

For instance, as soon as you saw the bike look at the painted line on the outside of the lane.

...but I wasn't there so who knows...you survived is all that matters.
__________________
Bones Heal, Chics Dig Scars, Pain Goes Away

Ducati Multistrada 1200s Pikes Peak
R0CKETMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 08:42 AM   #6
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarTripper View Post
Day before yesterday I nearly killed myself and another rider. In the end we just avoided a head-on, each going on his way without stopping.

I was engaged in a series of very nice twisties on a fairly deserted Scottish road. We had been riding for about an hour and I really felt 'in the groove'.

I probably relaxed concentration for a moment because I went into the next left hand bend just a wee bit too fast.

Almost as soon as I realised I was was too fast another bike appeared going the other way. His track through the turn was close the centreline. The danger was imminent and extreme. At this point I committed just about every newbie error including braking and looking at the oncoming bike. We missed but only by about 2 ft.

I have done track days and I know enough to know that I should have fixed my gaze hard into the turn and leaned more. Now here's the thing. I am sure that if another bike had not been approaching, this is exactly what I would have done.

But the bike represented a huge threat and so I target fixated on it. I hadn't thought about this before but the natural human response when detecting a threat is to fix attention on it. It is very unnatural to look away from danger.

Of course you don't get to practice overriding this natural instinct on a track day. Unless you want to try going round the track the wrong way!

You can do the next best thing. Learn and practice changing line mid turn. You have to think and look where you want to go, inside or outside. Eventually you develop the habit of looking and moving where you want to be. I've done it a few times when I've been going a bit wide with on-coming traffic, moving in a bit further just to play it safe.
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 09:01 AM   #7
NJ-Brett
Brett
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Southern New Jersey
Oddometer: 6,376
Maybe do some dirt riding.
You really can not dirt ride without learning how to dodge things all the time, ruts, rocks, trees, roots, mud holes, jeeps, if you do not learn how to dodge unexpected things you will crash all the time, which makes you learn fast and well...

Its also loads of fun.
NJ-Brett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 09:18 AM   #8
catweasel67
Still a B.A.N
 
catweasel67's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Vienna, Austria
Oddometer: 8,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkymcgee View Post
glad you got lucky there.

I'm not sure i could have done any better. Its one of those panic reactions that you never notice when there is no danger.

i'm trying to really focus on only pushing my limit on turns that i know really well and where i have a clear line of sight. My goal is to get comfortable scraping peg feelers so the extreme lean becomes second nature.
+1
__________________
Planning NA 2010 NA 2010
Adriatic Loop August 09 Mandello Guzzi Protest Sept 09
"I've got the key to the gates of paradise...but I've got too many legs!!" Jeff
Guns don't kill people, people kill people but people with guns manage to kill more people than people without.
catweasel67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 12:29 PM   #9
Webstermark
n00b
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Oddometer: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
Maybe do some dirt riding.
You really can not dirt ride without learning how to dodge things all the time, ruts, rocks, trees, roots, mud holes, jeeps, if you do not learn how to dodge unexpected things you will crash all the time, which makes you learn fast and well...

Its also loads of fun.
I agree and was just about to say the same thing. Falling in the dirt hurts, no doubt about that, but the odds of disaster are lower. You learn, (maybe it becomes more instinctive?) to react quicker to many different situations. It seems what you learn should apply to street riding as well, but I've never over-analyzed that, I just ride!
Webstermark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2014, 10:08 PM   #10
Human Ills
Useful Idiom
 
Human Ills's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: South (Dog help me) Bay
Oddometer: 23,021
Good thing is you know what you did wrong and are committed to learning from it. You'll be fine.
Human Ills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 05:35 AM   #11
markk53
jack of all trades...
 
markk53's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Delaware Ohio
Oddometer: 8,154
Off roading is fine and dandy, but it's still about developing the skill to change directions quickly and in reaction to the situation. This can be learned by simply doing it. When riding and goofing around I will move around in a corner. It's not about having the perfect line, it's about changing up the line mid corner. Learn how to do it and it is now in your catalog of possible actions when the situation arises.

When in familiar or open (vision) corners just dive deeper or move out wider. The actions needed to avoid road kill or a pot hole, whatever. You learn what it takes to do it.
__________________
Ever get lost? You know, that good kind of lost - come to a dirt road intersection and you have no idea where you are or which way to turn? I like when that happens!

Mark - klx678
95 KLX650C w/Vulcan piston bigbore, Now an 09 KLX250S, selling my 90 Zephyr 550
markk53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 06:18 AM   #12
KX50002
NooB, my ass
 
KX50002's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: NEPA
Oddometer: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkymcgee View Post
Glad you got lucky there.

I'm not sure I could have done any better. Its one of those panic reactions that you never notice when there is no danger.

I'm trying to really focus on only pushing my limit on turns that I know really well and where I have a clear line of sight. My goal is to get comfortable scraping peg feelers so the extreme lean becomes second nature.
And maybe.... just slow down a bit on the street?

"Good thing is you know what you did wrong and are committed to learning from it. You'll be fine. " This +1
__________________
SOTGMOTT Some Of The Gear Most Of The Time
KX50002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 06:26 AM   #13
scootrboi
Beastly Adventurer
 
scootrboi's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 1,464
Damn the torpedoes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KX50002 View Post
And maybe.... just slow down a bit on the street?

"Good thing is you know what you did wrong and are committed to learning from it. You'll be fine. " This +1
Driving fast is a given here.
__________________
42 years on a Heinkel Tourist
scootrboi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 06:29 AM   #14
Chuckracer
Jerkus Maximus
 
Chuckracer's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Lowville, NY
Oddometer: 7,977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Ills View Post
Good thing is you know what you did wrong and are committed to learning from it. You'll be fine.
This. Everybody's done it. The trick is to learn from it, and I'll bet you won't let that happen again.

You just became a better rider.
__________________
2005.5 KTM 950 Adventure
2005 Ducati ST3
Chuckracer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2014, 06:30 AM   #15
KX50002
NooB, my ass
 
KX50002's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: NEPA
Oddometer: 1,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by scootrboi View Post
Driving fast is a given here.
I ride fast too, but we were (I thought) discussing overcooking a corner and nearly hitting another bike
__________________
SOTGMOTT Some Of The Gear Most Of The Time
KX50002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014