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Old 08-08-2014, 03:46 PM   #46
triplenickel
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And if anyone is interested take a look at this year's BC government budget where it is giving back to the mining companies the royalties they pay for the extraction of the "crowns" property in a program called royalty tax credits. They've been doing the same with the natural gas companies operating in BC for a decade and have given back more than $1.9 billion in tax credits and reduced their corporate taxes by more than 30%! I wonder how many millions Imperial Metals has received back in tax credits from the people's treasury? And to top it all off, Canada has the 8th lowest corporate tax rate in the world (developed and developing). So when you hear these #@!$% cry the blues about taxes you know who's going to have to make up the difference. I am often amazed at how we love to be governed. This trait has helped to give us some of the most unscrupulous lying bunch of politicians a so called democracy can have. Time to end this and look for the best people in your ridings to represent you. Don't let the small number of citizens who actually belong to political parties decide for you. End the madness!
It's not like they give it all back it's a basic investment strategy, the province gets back more than it puts out. Thank the government for the low corporate taxes as Canada did absolutely fantastic post 2008 meltdown compared to the rest of the world. Are you really prepared for the impacts the changes you're insinuating should be made will have? I don't know of anyone person who's ready to give up their way of life, even the greenest of tree huggers benefits from this country's resource extraction.

How about you stop using the products of mining, of the energy sector, the government services that the royalties, taxes, and taxes of the well paid workers provide and get back to me.

We could legislate whatever we want into law, we can make it as strict and expensive as we want. Where do you think the investment dollars will end up, and where will that leave us? On a global scale is industry better off here or in a third world country with sketchy environmental and human rights standards? The powers that be try to strike a balance, it's impossible to make everyone happy. Is it perfect here? Fuck no, but lets hear a better plan.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:31 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by triplenickel View Post
It's not like they give it all back it's a basic investment strategy, the province gets back more than it puts out. Thank the government for the low corporate taxes as Canada did absolutely fantastic post 2008 meltdown compared to the rest of the world. Are you really prepared for the impacts the changes you're insinuating should be made will have? I don't know of anyone person who's ready to give up their way of life, even the greenest of tree huggers benefits from this country's resource extraction.

How about you stop using the products of mining, of the energy sector, the government services that the royalties, taxes, and taxes of the well paid workers provide and get back to me.

We could legislate whatever we want into law, we can make it as strict and expensive as we want. Where do you think the investment dollars will end up, and where will that leave us? On a global scale is industry better off here or in a third world country with sketchy environmental and human rights standards? The powers that be try to strike a balance, it's impossible to make everyone happy. Is it perfect here? Fuck no, but lets hear a better plan.
My abrasive in your face explanation style simply could not have laid things out any better. Well done.

It really is this simple.
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:43 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by triplenickel View Post
It's not like they give it all back it's a basic investment strategy, the province gets back more than it puts out. Thank the government for the low corporate taxes as Canada did absolutely fantastic post 2008 meltdown compared to the rest of the world. Are you really prepared for the impacts the changes you're insinuating should be made will have? I don't know of anyone person who's ready to give up their way of life, even the greenest of tree huggers benefits from this country's resource extraction.

How about you stop using the products of mining, of the energy sector, the government services that the royalties, taxes, and taxes of the well paid workers provide and get back to me.

We could legislate whatever we want into law, we can make it as strict and expensive as we want. Where do you think the investment dollars will end up, and where will that leave us? On a global scale is industry better off here or in a third world country with sketchy environmental and human rights standards? The powers that be try to strike a balance, it's impossible to make everyone happy. Is it perfect here? Fuck no, but lets hear a better plan.
You make some good points but the reason we weathered the financial crisis of 2008 so well is because Joe Flaherty kept tight reins on the banks and didn't let them run wild and give out mortgages at 120% of a houses assessed value
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:55 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider View Post
You make some good points but the reason we weathered the financial crisis of 2008 so well is because Joe Flaherty kept tight reins on the banks and didn't let them run wild and give out mortgages at 120% of a houses assessed value
The fuck he did.

The regulations controlling Canada's banking industry were well established long before Joe Flaherty showed up to begin selling this country down the river one sweetheart corporate tax break at a time.

You could look it up.

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Old 08-08-2014, 08:55 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider View Post
You make some good points but the reason we weathered the financial crisis of 2008 so well is because Joe Flaherty kept tight reins on the banks and didn't let them run wild and give out mortgages at 120% of a houses assessed value
Yes. Our highly regulated banking system isolated us from the 2008 financial meltdown. What had been a very critical position held by many against these tight reins, and our sale of oil to the USA, has isolated is from the despair of much of the USA and the EU.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:32 PM   #51
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Joe Flaherty is a Canadian comedian. Jim Flaherty was Canada's finance minister during the economic meltdown (RIP). I don't think Count Floyd set our banking policies.
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Old 08-08-2014, 09:35 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider View Post
You make some good points but the reason we weathered the financial crisis of 2008 so well is because Joe Flaherty kept tight reins on the banks and didn't let them run wild and give out mortgages at 120% of a houses assessed value


205'd by 3 minutes. D'oh!
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:18 PM   #53
Steve G.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canoehead View Post
Joe Flaherty is a Canadian comedian. Jim Flaherty was Canada's finance minister during the economic meltdown (RIP). I don't think Count Floyd set our banking policies.
Lol, no, Count Floyd not. Jim Flaherty RIP. These policies have been enforced by many previous finance ministers. He did however do the opposite of the country on our south border, instead of doubling the national debt in only 5 years like Obama, he ran a tight budget as he could.
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Old 08-09-2014, 05:21 AM   #54
Kamloopsrider
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Originally Posted by Lornce View Post
The fuck he did.

The regulations controlling Canada's banking industry were well established long before Joe Flaherty showed up to begin selling this country down the river one sweetheart corporate tax break at a time.

You could look it up.

It's true that we have had strong banking regs for a long time but Flaherty was being pressured by the banks to deregulate and allow increased foreign ownership in Canadian banks. The banks and his boss were all for this until the shit hit the fan.

If you think Flaherty was the one that started selling us down the river you're delusional.
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Old 08-09-2014, 04:14 PM   #55
edwin
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anyone ride this wkend yet?
not me....music fest in town today.
prob go for a shnort minnyanna.
peace
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:22 PM   #56
BobLoblaw
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anyone ride this wkend yet?
not me....music fest in town today.
prob go for a shnort minnyanna.
peace
have you been drinking tailings pond water.
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:59 PM   #57
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have you been drinking tailings pond water.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:08 AM   #58
numbthumb
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Cry

My inteligens is starting to be insulted by the news spin this story is getting; The water ban is partially lifted (UPSTREAM) of the spill. The breach has stopped flowing, BECAUSE THE POND HAS EMPTIED.
sheesh

Not to make light of this disaster but there are other mines in the world, like Grasberg in Papua, that don't contain their tailings at all and send over 10 times as much as this into the river and subsequently the ocean EVERY DAY.
I hope Freeport-McMoran isn't in your 'ethical' funds portfolio!

At least we have laws and hopefully justice
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Old 08-12-2014, 12:26 AM   #59
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My brother's employer in Quesnel has him testing water like crazy right now. So far, nothing. But that's so far...

There's probably a few people who do have a pretty solid grasp of what is going to be the result of this from an environmental standpoint. But I doubt the news media is bothering to track them down, and I suspect they've got other things on their mind right now than finding the media so they can educate them.

There does seem to be general agreement that this mine was told repeatedly that the dam needed reinforcement at the base, and they chose not to address that. Which leads me to wonder: what were the BC Mines Inspectors doing? At Coal Mountain in SE BC, one of the blasters was caught using illegal drugs during a random drug test. He was running a blasting crew and training a new blaster at the time. Teck convinced the Mines Inspectors NOT to revoke his blasting ticket as they intended to - said it could potentially harm their drug testing program that they were defending in court.

Since then, this blaster has been the cause of at least one Dangerous Occurance, and probably more like two or three more. The Health, Safety, and Mine Reclamation Code for BC says that when a blaster causes a Dangerous Occurance, he SHALL have his license suspended.

Has Teck suspended his license as the law says they must do? Nope. Has the BC Mines Inspector who let him keep his license suspended it now like the law says must be done? Nope. Three other blasters brought their concerns to the Minister of Mines about this, an inquiry was held into the Mines Inspector's actions (more properly, lack of action), and the result was... "nothing to see here". Total whitewash.

So with that as background, it's obvious that there is nothing new with BC Mines Inspectors looking the other way, allowing the HSMRC legislation to be violated and outright ignored, etc. That predates the current provincial government, and it will probably still be going on when the current government is gone. Mines Inspectors were just as bad under Social Credit, even worse under one NDP government. No government cleans that rat's nest out.

If Mines Inspectors will repeatedly ignore formal complaints about a blaster who is using illegal drugs, aberrant behaviour, causing Dangerous Occurrences, etc... why would anyone be particularly surprised that Mines Inspectors in another part of the province are looking the other way when a mine there has unsafe dams and have been warned they have unsafe dams? It's just more of the same, with different companies involved.

If you know a miner, surface or underground, just ask them about the shit they see where they work which is illegal as hell under the HSMRC, and which the Mines Inspectors do nothing about. Make sure you have some spare time before you ask. Polley is just one of many, many oopsies...

You can mine safely, your can mine properly with minimal impact on the environment... but none of that matters when Mines Inspectors pretty much signal to mining operations that they can mostly do what they want.

As far as long term effects of Mt Polley... I remember the wails of "the sky is falling" when the Exxon Valdez oil spill occurred. It certainly wasn't anything minor to sneer at, any more than a tailings pond failure. But people forget that in nearly six years of WWII, all sides in the war were sinking every single oil tanker they could put a bomb or torpedo into, whether in the Atlantic, the Pacific, the Bering Sea, etc.

If I recall correctly, about 330 oil tankers were lost in the Pacific, the vast majority of them Japanese. They held about 150,000 barrels each. The Exxon Valdez reportedly spilled about 500,000 barrels of oil - or about the equivalent of 4 of those 330 oil tankers. An environmental assessment is more complex than that of course, but anyone who's been diving, vacationing, etc in the South Pacific would probably say they really haven't noticed an environment devastated by all those oil tankers that were sunk, along with all the other ships with various petroleum products aboard. I suspect Mount Polley will end up being somewhat similar.

My take is that Mount Polley is completely unacceptable, simply because there is no reason it ever should have happened. Yes, they should go after those within the corporate structure who decided not to act if indeed they were given credible information that the engineering of the dam was insufficient. But they should also go after the Mines Inspectors and anyone else in government charged with enforcement who had knowledge of this and chose not to do anything about it.
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Old 08-14-2014, 06:44 AM   #60
numbthumb
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I hear you Jag but I'd like to say a few things regarding the inspectors;
I've done inspection work for engineers and it was a thankless job. You see the contractor cutting corners on something, call them on it, shut them down if necessary, they complain to the engineer of record, the EOR consults with the owner, it is deemed okay, and there you are stuck in the middle looking like a monkey.
I can't see it being any different in a bureaucracy. Quite likely much more political, especially if it goes up high enough to involve campaign contributions, dinners in your honour, etc!

It's still a frigging mess that should have never happened. Let's hope some heads roll, or even jail time just like that BP spill in the Gulf of Mexico...um, nevermind, bad example.
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