Halvarssons Safety Jacket - First Impressions (long, lots and lots of pics)

Nor do I. If the Halvarssons Safety pants don't work for me,... that's why I've been looking at other things in the catalog. Like these...

Halvarssons Cobra Pants. Cordura, HI-ART Light, adjustable armour can be fitted, Dryway+ membrane, detachable Outlast liner.



Lindstrands Taal offroad pants. HI-ART Light in more vulnerable areas, armour can be fitted. Some sort of poly/nylon ripstop fabric. (This picture doesn't show the fabric; there's a close-up picture in the catalog that shows it much better. It looks much better than it does here. (The zebra one.)) Detachable Dryway+ membrane. Can be zipped to any jacket.





Lindstrands Fokker on road pants. HI-ART Light in more vulnerable areas, armour can be fitted. I don't know if it's poly-cotton or what.

For that, we need CE test data for all of them; same time, same place.

"Definitively" also applies to the garment itself - it means EN 13595 certified. Level 1, or 2, or better, so we know what abrasion resistance it has, and that it won't come apart at the seams.

It's all the same issue, pretty much, like Flowbee and the Safety pants. "Down the street" ... my 10 minutes to work ...that sort of thing. (Sometimes with 30 / 90 degrees.)
The way I see it, now - well, I've said it already - at least the Halvarsons and Lindstrands gear is from a company with commitment to the EN 13595 standard, so I'd rather compromise with the HI-ART Light; I think it's more likely to be stitched well; it has pockets for their T-Pro armour (which is probably not the best but it's better than what you generally get.)

Yeah...get the zebra. :)

@makinwaves:

My situation is pretty much the same - or similar. But only about 10-15 minutes, and it's Durban not BC, and I'll take the car if it's raining.
I suppose you keep shoes at work.
Do you have your own office, or a cubicle? - Where do you change? I've thought about it, and the bathroom is too small - but right next to my cubicle is the stationery/room - with a locking door.

I'm waiting for jofama to modify the pants for me - to make some tucks to take in the waist, and this morning I told biker-land that I imight as well get them to do the outer pants as well. Apparently it's going to take a couple weeks. That's ok, I'll carry on trying to decide about getting some other pants as well, or the Quito jacket for dual sport rides. (Apparently, it won't add to the shipping cost, so...)

I've been meaning to say, thank you again for starting this (and also to flowbee for the additional photos.) You finding bikerland.de, their prices, that's what got this started. After a year or two of discussion, some of it the same old questions and issues, the same needs; some strenuous efforts to explain why the CE standards... and the Halvarssons Safety seemed like something unobtainable and too expensive, this thread is like a turning point, a new phase. It's where the entrance of Halvarssons Safety into the USA market is happening. (ok, you're in Canada, I'm in SA, and flowbee's in the states, but still.) And bikerland.de is very happy with it, btw. Now when someone searches the internet for "Halvarssons", this thread is the best link that will come up.

Get the catalog.

Some of the styling is a bit odd...different.
The leather's interesting. Most of the Halvarssons leather is classic, and retro, some of it finished to look worn; I was thinking there must be a good market for it in Sweden, or they wouldn't do it. Lots of it's goat nappa. The cowhide, you can see in the big pictures, it's that really good leather, full grain, quite different from A*stars and Dainese and so on.



Halvarsons Identity Classic.
Goat nappa, HI-ART, adjustable CE approved protectors, Triple Stitching.

I guess what I meant was, is there any armor I don't know about and do we have numbers for every armors' performance? And with those numbers, I can determine the DEFINITIVE best (at least in terms of absorbed and transferred impact. Comfort and coverage area is something I'd have to weigh).

T-pro, BMW, BKS, Velocity seem to have the best numbers from what I've seen, but I haven't seen details. I can mix and match to get what I want for back and limbs, etc. But I don't know everyones numbers. I know BKS is "extreme performance" for limbs and meets the medical recommendation for the back (4kn), but what are their numbers. Velocity gear is close with 4.49kn for the back and 90 joules for limbs, so I guess they're good, but not the best. T-pro says their limbs are good at 100joules, but still what were the kn, and what about their back. The only BMW numbers I've seen are from that sheet you posted, but at what joules were those numbers from.

But we definitely need what you said, all of them tested in the same manner, same machine, same place. Not just a Snell/DOT/CE, but a company that tests every material and every protector and reports the numbers. Not just a pass/fail type thing, but an actual comparison and release of the numbers. I would say test every jacket and pants too, but that would get quite extensive. Once you've got the tear/abrasion/ resistance of Carbolex, Hitena, Maxtena, Hypertex, etc. etc. you'll have an idea of what they're capable of. Then some burst/seam testing can be done on a good number of manufacturers and final products. It could be limited to the primo stuff (and some lower end), because really anyone who buys 500 Denier Cordura when they know of 1000 Denier Cordura is not exactly the consumer the tests are done for. Then test helmets and release "G" numbers, and protectors and release "kn" figures. It'd allow concerned consumers to really buy the best, and the manufacturers would be forced to change. No more "our armor is the best," or "super abrasion resistant," crap. No more, CE approved. I want to know numbers. Testing would also be involuntary, meaning that they test everything, not just what has been sent to them. Then additional info like coverage area would be nice, but not exactly scientific in terms of does that higher percent mean much.

What would also be nice is after all the scientific testing they just throw a 200lb dummy off the back of a moving truck at 80mph with the gear on. Or drag it for some time. It's not scientific because the slide and bounces would never be the same so better gear might perform worse just from luck. However, it'd give some real world comparison for what all those scientific numbers mean. Yes, leather survives 1800 cycles in the abrasion test, but what does that mean on the road.

Now if I can make a business model that would be profitable maybe I'd do it. I've got a good wad of cash that I'm looking to start a business with, but I'm not going to go non-profit (at least not for me, hehe). Non-profit is great if I already had a profit center. Soooo...how could it be done. Magazine? Tough business. Members pay to receive the info? Once someone gets the info, they'll post it on the internet.

Hmmm...should think about that more...but I've got to go now (right after I start a quick Boot thread. We really don't have enough, ha.)

I honestly can't say that I've read all of the posts on the armour discussion, however to keep this thread on topic, I'll add my opinion on the Halvarssons vs Motoport armour....

As owner of the Halvarssons Safety Jacket and Motoport Ultra II Kevlar pants, in my opinion the armour in the Halvarssons jacket is significantly superior to that in the Motoport pants. In fact, I consider the Motoport armour so inferior that I'm also (slowly...) trying to figure out how to replace it. It's large size however makes it difficult for an easy switch.

As for the quality of the Halvarssons armour, I agree with Cat, if it's used daily by the guru of the CE motorcycle safety standards while he rides, and it passes the CE standards along with the jacket as a whole, then it's definitely good enough for me! Can't go wrong there!

Yes, let's keep on topic, please. We don't want to become yet another... those threads.
We'll get some explanation from Paul re the differences in the test results of that motorrad magazine test. And, unfortunately, their data, is about all we're going to get, with regard to all the brands same time, same place.

Paul's experience is pretty much unmatched. Armour and protective equipment for motorycycling, police, equestrian; for more than 10 years, if I remember correctly. ("google is your friend.")

Yep, change in my office. Although I have to remember to lock it as the old accounting lady likes to barge in after quickly knocking...:eek1 Yes, keep my shoes here as well.

Note I choose this method to avoid wrinkling my clothes too much...but you could wear clothing underneath if you want. I tend to overheat quite easily so the less clothes under the gear the more comfortable I am.

Awww, shucks. Truth be told though I was just serving my own stubborn self-interests to find the safest yet practical motorcycle gear available. It was my skin I wanted to save, not anybody elses!! Of course, then I was too excited to keep it to myself so just had to share with all the inmates here!

Cheers!

Practical. You get the waterproof / cold weather jacket/pants and the part mesh for hotter weather, and there's the full mesh option if necessary. Leather - the only alternative for good protection - would only be practical if it wasn't going to rain. Even with my 10-15 minute commute, it could rain for days and then I'd have soggy leather. And it often rains on and off and it's about 26 degrees and humid, so carrying a rain suit wouldn't be the best option.

+ 1,000

I have been trying to learn from other's mistakes and so I've been sharing this with the wife BEFORE I pull the trigger.

The good news is that she has bought into the idea completely, so we'll both be getting Safety Suits.

The bad news is that she's decided that we'll need a new K-LT to wear them on.... *sigh*

Thanks again!

No US importers?
I got the catalog and the stuff looks really top shelf.
I just hate...HATE, ordering anything unseen.
Nothing ever fits they way someone else says
its supposed to...At least on me.

fwiw, I'm a box-standard 44 chest. The Euro size 54 that Isabella recommended is right on the money. I'm a 34 or a 36 waist depending on my mood. She recommended a 54 for pants as well. She also got the size right on the pants. Makinwaves wanted a 42 chest, and their recommendation of a 52 chest was just what he wanted.

When you order, they ask you for a whole series of measurement including arm, inseam, outseam, back length, etc. You can send all your measurements to them and ask Isabella for a recommendation without any obligation.

I can't tell you what to do, but I can say Biker-Land is a class act. They are quick and professional in all their communication, and everything was completely on the up-and-up with them. My package weighed about 30lb and they charged about US$65 for air freight shipment to my house. I consider that pretty good. The products were well packed, shipped quickly and arrived via DHL at US Customs within a week of my order. US Customs sat on the package for several weeks, but in the end they passed passed it right through without charging any duties.

I agree, its a bit of a nail-biter. There are quality domestic alternatives out there. Good luck.

Excellent! Good for her. How did you find the thread?
I'd been thinking, also, that on any forum, only about 1 in 10 or less of registered users ever post anything, so there might be others who've gone to biker-land.de for Halvarssons; more than we know of.

Is a K-LT some kind of BMW?

Some explanation about the Forcefield/T-Pro armour from our vendor of armour knowledge, Paul Varnsverry:

Hi. Thanks to this thread, my lady and I have also just ordered a Halvarsson each. We are in Tasmania, so we are thinking that with all the ADV riders who are now getting into these excellent suits, a good database of knowledge will be built up of different experiences, especially since we are all in different parts of the world, and therefore in different weather. We will post pics and info as soon as the suits arrive.

Daz.

Unobtainable eh? I'm guessing you mean in sheets.

I googled some on the d30lab. Sounds interesting and I'd like to see what it could do for motorcycle protection. Seems like an advanced cornstarch and water type thing. I could make some at home, ha.

Awesome! and dammit, I'm going to have to call biker-land and ask for a cut of the profits...

I'm looking forward to hearing other reviews and as you mention, especially from people in different climates.

Cheers!

Any more updates on it's performance in heat?

Here's a question...Is ALL of the abrasion/seam-burst/impact protection in the safety layers? Or when it was tested at exceeding 12 seconds for abrasion, were the outer jackets used in conjuction with the safety layer as well?

Because, if all of the protection (including the 12+ seconds of abrasion) is in the safety layers, I could wear whatever I want on top. Be it a Vanson Mesh shirt, any motorcycle jacket, jeans, or a paper thin neon yellow windbreaker. I would be free to decide on weather, fashion, or conspicuous desires.

My concerns with Halvarssons are bulk, heat, armor and visibility. Bulk, heat, visibility could be remedied some if I could just wear anything over the safety layers. The armor is still something I'd be interested in replacing with perhaps BKS or BMW NP.


For any of the Halvarssons owners...do you think the armor could be replaced easily? It's hard to guage size, but since you have an idea of how much it covers, do you think these would fit without modification...

BMW armor can be seen several seconds in to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NiSXiu0LJ0&mode=related&search

Then BKS (no real perspective on size):
http://www.bksleather.co.uk/access.htm

Whether or not you think these would be easy replacements, how is the armor held in place? Is it inside of the safety layers, held by a thin material, like many motorcycle garments do now? Basically, I'm asking if the armor isn't easily replaced, could the pockets that hold the armor be modified with some ease? Even if it requires a tailor and new material, just as long as I don't have to tear it apart and ruins its protection abilities. Of course, there is always the option of trying to buy sheets or custom shaped armor from BKS or Tpro if they would do such a thing. Which may be even better, because I could increase coverage area.

BikerLand looks like they list the Halvarrsons now, with a total for jacket and pants being 1048 Euros, equaling $1,415. I hope if I email them they'll still give me a price like yours.

I'm spending a lot of money on safety gear (seriously, it's gonna be a good amount more than half of my bike's price) so money is no object, but I hope I can make it some bit of an object.

Thanks to a knowledgeable and experienced person in the know, some answers...

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
Any more updates on it's performance in heat?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>


I have owned my HSS for over two years . I do not use the detachable, Outlast linings; preferring to use Outlast longjohns and long-sleeved vest instead. I have worn it in this combination in cold conditions (ambient 0C; sub-zero with windchill) through to +40C, including several journeys across Europe with temperatures in the mid-to-high 30s C.

With the mesh outers attached, the Outlast base layer is constantly 'regenerated' and its capabilities are substantially enhanced. I know that I can ride further in hot conditions, without feeling fatigued, than could ever be the case with any other conventional form of protective motorcyclists' clothing, yet with far superior protection than the mesh garments which are popular in such conditions.

With the waterproof/windproof outers attached, I still wear the same base layer. Occasionally I will add a close-fitting sweatshirt as an intermediate layer. I have never found it necessary to increase above this. Last winter, I experimented with Marino Sportwool base layers, but did not find they offered any noticeable advantage.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
Here's a question...Is ALL of the abrasion/seam-burst/impact protection in the safety layers? Or when it was tested at exceeding 12 seconds for abrasion, were the outer jackets used in conjuction with the safety layer as well?

Because, if all of the protection (including the 12+ seconds of abrasion) is in the safety layers, I could wear whatever I want on top. Be it a Vanson Mesh shirt, any motorcycle jacket, jeans, or a paper thin neon yellow windbreaker. I would be free to decide on weather, fashion, or conspicuous desires.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Yes, the Safety layer alone will meet the Level 2 requirements of EN 13595 (in fact, it exceeds the base requirement by a comfortable margin). The outer layers do, however, increase the margin by which those requirements are exceeded. Tested alone, they would not be expected to provide any more than 0.45 - 0.65 seconds of impact abrasion resistance. Worn in conjunction with the Safety layer, their contribution to the overall performance is several seconds - certainly enough to put the product well into Cambridge Standard Level 3 territory.

The HSS is a modular garment system. It is supplied with a variety of outer layers as standard, and others can be purchased as accesories. Between them, they would cover all the bases you have highlighted. Yes, you could wear a competitor's product as an outer layer, but it should be noted that use of non-original equipment components with the Safety layer would technically breach the HSS' approval and this would absolve the manufacturer of any liability.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
My concerns with Halvarssons are bulk, heat, armor and visibility. Bulk, heat, visibility could be remedied some if I could just wear anything over the safety layers. The armor is still something I'd be interested in replacing with perhaps BKS or BMW NP.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

As indicated above, in my experience the standard product already deals with the concerns you have raised. Purchasing the additional outer layers (full mesh, high visibility - 3 versions), will deal with the rest.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
For any of the Halvarssons owners...do you think the armor could be replaced easily?
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
It's hard to guage size, but since you have an idea of how much it covers, do you think these would fit without modification...
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Yes. Any armour with the hook side of Velcro fitted to its outer face should fit the loop side Velcro attached to the HSS. Please ensure the armour is approved to EN 1621-1 or, once again, the HSS' certification is technically invalidated.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
Whether or not you think these would be easy replacements, how is the armor held in place? Is it inside of the safety layers, held by a thin material, like many motorcycle garments do now? Basically, I'm asking if the armor isn't easily replaced, could the pockets that hold the armor be modified with some ease? Even if it requires a tailor and new material, just as long as I don't have to tear it apart and ruins its protection abilities.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
Of course, there is always the option of trying to buy sheets or custom shaped armor from BKS or Tpro if they would do such a thing. Which may be even better, because I could increase coverage area.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Most garment manufacturers fit pockets to accept armour. Halvarssons is one of a few who use Velcro, which is much better because - providing the amount of Velco used is sufficiently generous - it allows much more scope for 'fine tuning' of its position for fit and comfort.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Originally Posted by KeepItSafe
BikerLand looks like they list the Halvarrsons now, with a total for jacket and pants being 1048 Euros, equaling $1,415. I hope if I email them they'll still give me a price like yours.

I'm spending a lot of money on safety gear (seriously, it's gonna be a good amount more than half of my bike's price) so money is no object, but I hope I can make it some bit of an object.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

That's a seriously good price. The retail price of the HSS in the UK is, I believe, GBP 900, which is US$1800 at current exchange rates.





And with that, I am now going to be ordering a Halvarssons Safety Suit.
Thanks to everyone on here that shared their info, experiences, and knowledge.

Excellent post KeepItSafe! I haven't worn the Halvarssons jacket in hot weather yet (maybe 70 at the most so far this year), so I couldn't comment on heat. Looks like you received great answers to your other questions as well.

Congrats on your decision! You've clearly shown that safety is of significant concern for your buying decision and I think you'll be extremely pleased with the gear!

Cheers!